Okay no seriously...what's plan B if Martin isn't good enough?

Why didn't we see the same level of targeting and pursuit of an upgrade at center, do you suppose?

 

Because they already have the best one in the league? They also have to field two starting tackles, and only had Martin rostered at the time.

 

This place is becoming a zoo..

-it's ok to vent your concerns about your football team on your teams message board. If someone is overly concerned that's their prerogative. After all it is supposed to be a board where you talk about your worries. But you will still get the "your overreacting, the sky isn't falling" posts. God forbid.

-like the Iowa kid said, every team has holes. Fact of the matter is we have way less holes than we did this time last year. And me as big of an Ireland basher you will see is now forced to tip my cap to the product he will put on the field.

-As far as Martin goes their is legitimate concern, and the OP asking about Option B is a valid question. He struggled last year and he sounds like he is STILL getting abused. It's certainly a concern.

 

As part of a contingency if they didnt land Long or another LT and had to move Martin over.

Seemed they looked into LTs first. RTs were a consolation prize.

 

Because the best available tackles were LTs. The only constant was Martin was going to be a starting tackle on this team and that does not indicate a problem with Martin.

 

This is not entirely true. Everyone is proposing to help Martin with another blocker (RB, TE) and yet it has nothing to do with keeping people in to protect instead of running patterns to attack the defense?

 

If you honestly believe the staff believes there is no problem with Martin I will stop trying to convince you. We are too far apart.

We need to split up.

 

no one is saying it needs to happen EVERY time we pass the ball. maybe it needs to happen when we play, say, the Ravens with Dumervill? Or the Bills with Williams? But the jets with...whoever their OLBs are...not so much.

 

You're saying the FO's attempt to get a tackle this offseason, says a lot about what they thought of Martin. I'm telling you that specific notion is false, because the only constant during all of that is that Martin was going to start at tackle regardless of who they picked.

If the staff is seeing a problem now, I don't know and quite frankly, neither do any of us.

 

He doesn't need to necessarily be helped by a skill position. He can be helped by the LG as well. But there is a big difference between having your RB pass-protect and using max-protect. Either way, using a TE or RB as a blocker isn't anything that should be considered out of the ordinary or debilitating.

 

That's not true, they were interested in Eric Winston pretty early on.

 

Clearly, via their unwillingness to overpay for a LT, the staff and FO are not in a panic over Martin being unstartable, but it also seems clear they thought it a good idea to target LTs who are considered better than Martin and thus have some concerns with how well he'll perform.

The posters on the board may be more worried about Martin than the staff, but that doesn't mean the staff isn't concerned about him.

 

I wish I could tap into some of the exchanges which took place in the Wannstedt/Fiedler era in Dolphindom on any one of several message boards I habituated then. Most of them would make our exchanges here sound as if we are sitting around in plush leather chairs with attendants refilling our snifters of Napolean, and for the abstentious among us, the cups of Darjeeling.

 

I said I would panic after Game 3 of the preseason.

I am going to revise that.

I will now panic the first time he whiffs on a speed rush and Tanny gets killed.

I have my little spies telling me that we either have Demarcus Ware and Dwight Freeney in Vernon and Jordan, or Jon Martin is just not a Tackle.

 

Has Will Yeatman even been mentioned in camp?

 

If they missed the past 4 years? Sure. They should eventually be fired.

 

Naw, I think our QB is mentally strong. Not a ***** like Joey Harrington or David Carr.

Ok I was being a bit hyperbolic. He graded out pretty damn bad from what I remember. There may have been worse. Don't forget on the final fantastic drive, he left Adalius Thomas get around him repeatedly almost torpedoing that drive (and allowing a perfect Patriots season). Adalius destroyed him on that drive.

A lot of quick passes (and one crazy get away) by Eli to withstand Thomas's pressures. No fancy moves either just bull rushed Diehl.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/players/david-diehl-184685/

2007. 13.5 sacks allowed. Is that decent? Or bad?

 

Yes, time to throw is important. But he has the most control over it out of anyone on the team. Jon Martin is a small piece of the puzzle. There isn't a QB in the league that isn't hampered by players around them. If his only protection concern is Jon Martin, then overall that's a good situation IMO.

Not to mention the fact that you have a mobile QB, so the team has extra tools in confusing opposing DEs.

I do agree that Jon Martin looks to be a bust at this point, but at the same time its not really that big of a deal. Its pretty much negated by Olivier Vernon becoming a solid pass-rusher.

Sent from my HTC One GE using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

If Martin plays badly, but the coaches stick it out with him, we risk ruining Tannehill's development and ending up with him getting beat down and seeing ghosts like David Carr or Joey Harrington.

You recall how hard it is to find a franchise caliber QB, guys?

It's not worth risking ruining him. That's why we need a plan B, just in case.

 

If Tannehill turns out to be Harrington or Carr, it won't be because of Martin. It'll be because Tannehill failed to develop. Teams have masked deficiencies on the offensive line before, it's nothing new.

If Martin sucks, we'll likely draft a OT early next year or maybe sign a FA such as Branden Albert.

 

Thank you, sir.

 

i agree, I think it can impede some development, and for weaker individuals, maybe worse, but if he is what we want him to be, he will engage his playmaking gene, escape the pressure and get first downs and win games regardless.

 

IMO RT's success or failure is based far more on his speed of decision making than on whether there is one weak link on the end of the o-line. Say a typical game has 60 offensive snaps and half of them are pass plays. Of those 30, the o-line might be asked to block for longer than 3.5 seconds on maybe 6 plays. (That's about how long an end will need to get to the QB.) Of those, say the back or TE chips or helps on three of them. Assuming that RT has zero pocket awareness and that Martin completely fails on 100% of these plays (neither of which I believe are true or likely), that would expose RT to hits on three plays due to Martin. Last year Martin was giving up hits on the QB on about 1 out of every 10 pass snaps after moving to LT (according to some stats I saw posted on this forum). If he has zero improvement that would mean that RT would be potentially hit due to Martin approximately once every three games (again assuming that RT also doesn't improve his awareness, anticipation or adjustment to the speed of the game).

My expectation (from reviewing his mistakes last season) is that just by improving his strength and the timing of his punch Martin would cut out about half of his errors from last season. I think that he's likely to improve just due to experience, from the work we've read he's put in this off-season on strength and his physical maturation. I don't see such improvement as unlikely. I would say that that level of improvement is more likely than not simply based on my having watched players go from year 1 to year 2 for 30 years or so. That takes RT's hit ratio from Martin blunders from once every three games to once every six games. That rate would actually make him above average for a typical LT. Again that's assuming RT hasn't improved. RT could eliminate just about all of those hits with better awareness and anticipation. So I don't see the gloom and doom about having one (potentially) weak link on the o-line. IMO our o-line is more set than most. I think that if we're solid from G through RT with only the other T as a question mark, that puts our o-line in the top half of the league. I just don't see this as a panic situation. I don't see this as comparable to our receiving unit situation last year. I don't see this as the thing that will cost us two games. I don't see this as some front office failure to address the o-line. Sure RT can be knocked out on any one play, but that's just the reality of the sport. You're never going to eliminate that concern no matter how much money or draft picks you throw at the line.

 

How is it myopic? You miss on some guys, hit on others. Thats the inherent reality of the game. You're essentially saying that a team shouldn't have areas of deficiency. Thats not a reasonable goal. You can go through almost every team in the league and find starters just as bad as Jon Martin. The challenge is having guys that are good enough to make up for it.

 

good points, and it's the main reason why we need to see games so we know what were dealing with and how much we need to adjust..Philbin discussed last week how Martins punch is still a weakness at this point..

 

I posted this point in the other (redundant) thread on the same topic, but I think the point is relevant to to our specific discussion in these last few posts. Martin was good enough in pass pro against the average pass rushers last season. He got abused by Mario Williams, Justin Smith and Chandler Jones. I don't think he will improve enough to change that against Williams and Jones this season. (I think his improvement will just make him more consistent against the other 95% of his opponents). I also don't believe that Long, Albert or draftee Johnson would have fared any better in those match-ups against elite DEs. He or any other LT we signed or drafted would/will need help in those games. So all of these posts about having or needing a back-up plan make no sense to me. I see them as over-reactions to a situation that will not change regardless of who we add.

 

Armando Salguero @ArmandoSalguero

LT Jonathan Martin did not give up a sack today!