Sunday buzz column.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, Jun 30, 2013.

  1. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's an "Eagle" defense alignment right there. You have Wake, Burnett, and Jones all aligned together - something Miami did a lot more of later in the year. Essentially, you're using your bigger players - in this case it looks like Soliai, Odrick, and Vernon to take on 3 guys on the backside, plus the QB if Wilson runs it. Philosophically, you're trying to force the play to your tacklers - Dansby, Burnett, and Jones, all aligned to the strong side.

    With the addition of Dion Jordan, you can play him where Vernon is in this picture, and you've immediately got a 1-on-1 matchup with the LT, unless Seattle slides the back over. Soliai is going to take 2 blockers in that shot, and if you blitz Burnett or Dansby, you're going to give Wake a matchup against a RT and a back after the TEs release. He's good enough to beat that and get a pressure on the QB.
     
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  2. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Good stuff man. Is this what you were talking about with the Will-Sam switching up? I found one that looks like an Under front with Misi as the Sam and Burnett as the Will. Then I noticed Wake and Odrick had swapped sides also so now I'm confused again :lol:.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's a pretty standard shift when going from an Over front to an Under front, but Miami also ran a true Under front, like you have here, pretty rarely - that may be due to Wake playing mostly at LDE. For the most part, last year anyway, regardless of front you'll usually find Odirck and Misi on the same side, with Wake and Burnett on the same side opposite those guys. Just part of the way Coyle can adjust the defense through various fronts.

    I'd imagine this year, whether the front is an Over, Under, or Bear look, you'll see a lot of Wake and Wheeler on one side, with Odrick/Vernon and Misi on the other. How they fit Dion Jordan into the mix should be interesting. IMO, Jordan can play where Koa Misi plays every down, regardless of formation. He could also play where Cameron Wake plays in the Under set, like this picture, and you can play him in a lot of sub packages where they had Olivier Vernon last year.

    For a reference point, Cincinnati plays a lot of Under defense as they like Michael Johnson on the right side of the defense. Miami is a little more unconventional, IMO, because Wake plays on the left side so often.
     
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  4. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He has great talent, something we haven't seen in a long time for a lot of our players, it's tangible when he steps on the field, I think other players like knowing and seeing it in display even if it's raw..

    I still remember when he took the field on his first practice, Trust me Sick when I say this, Moore or Garrard never had a chance.
     
  5. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I just wanna see him do it all, from everywhere, is that cool?
     
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  6. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    That sounds similar to what Gus Bradley did in Seattle. Upon first glance it would appear as though the right side would be vulnerable while the left side looks ominous, so offenses would try to run against the weak side where the Leo, Chris Clemons, aligns wide in their 4-3 Over scheme which leaves a huge gap between himself and the nose tackle seen below. However when the defense expects and anticipates runs to that side it's a lot easier to shut it down to where it's basically playing right into the defense's hands. It's like when you're in the open field about to attempt a tackle; if you wait for the ball carrier to initiate his juke or set you up, there's a decent chance you're left grabbin' air b/c he can go left, right, or through you, but if you beat him to the punch and take the first step, an intentionally false hard step to one direction left or right, the ball carrier will instinctively go the opposite way, and when you know his next step is the opposite direction you also know you're next step will be to the opposite direction too, meaning that when you make your initial false step you already have your body, momentum, balance, etc prepared to immediately go the other way for an easier tackle opportunity. You're essentially the one doing the initial juking which baits the ball carrier toward the direction you want rather than passively allowing him to choose 1 of 3 directions. Works especially great on guys who like to do the shuffle-feet then juke, the hop then juke, or a cutback when running laterally (like toward the sideline) when they don't have a lot of momentum or speed built up to take them the other way past you after making your initial plant.

    Anywho, you can see how enticing it would look for offenses to want to either attack the right side or have a running back cut it back that way, but it's nothing more than baiting the offense into a trap. Seattle has an overloaded strong side with two stout 2-gappers plus the safety dropped down to the left. That's like inviting instant death for anyone attempting to run that direction. By aligning this way the linebackers don't have to worry about multiple gap responsibilities and are freed up to play fast and quickly aid the soft spot to the right where they can instantly outnumber the blockers. Since the TE is on the left here I'm not sure if the Leo (Clemons) permanently lines up on the defense's left side in their 4-3 Over or if it's a just weak side only thing. I'd like to go back to our film and see how this compares to our base alignment and play responsibility with Wake lining up on the left as well.

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I thought I recalled him lining up on the strong side or next to Wake most of the time. What's the down and distance here? Seems like a passing down with a 2 TE set aligned to Wake's side to initially slow his rush off the line. What's the rest of the play look like? With a three on three and Soliai appearing to occupy two blockers it looks like a great opportunity to stunt that outside rusher.
     
  8. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    That makes sense with our personnel. In this play we have a 5-4 numbers advantage to strong side and a 3 on 3 to the weak side that also plays to our advantage thanks to Soliai making it more like a 3 on 2. Plus if Odrick's at RE he doesn't need any help vs the left tackle.
     
  9. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    which is fine with me b/c I'll take Wake isolated against the right tackle.
     
  10. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'd be interested to see if Kevin Coyle has any connection to Pete Carroll and/or Monte Kiffin. Coyle mentioned way back in his introductory presser that his defense was influence by 4 coaches.

    1) Mike Zimmer - that's pretty obvious as Coyle was directly under him during his tenure in Cincinnati.
    2) Marvin Lewis - again, pretty obvious, and I think that's where the "Bear" front look comes from. Lewis ran similar styles with the Ravens and Redskins as a coordinator.
    3) Dick LeBeau - not that obvious. I think some of the influence here is what he did with Reshad Jones and some of the blitz principles we saw last year. Now with Dion Jordan in the fold, I wonder if we see more looks that incorporate 3-4 principles.
    4) The mystery man...
     
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  11. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Exactly. The more I've gone back and looked at what Miami did last year, the more I like it. I especially like what they did against Seattle through the end of the season. They faced some challenging offenses with Seattle, New England twice, San Francisco, and Buffalo the second time. If not for some bad breaks (Vernon's penalty on the Reshad Jones pick 6 of Brady in the first Pats game; Colin Kaepernick owning Jason Trusnik; the Chris Clemons TD fumble return that wasn't, etc.) Miami fared pretty well in every game except the second Pats game. I think some of that was certainly due to inferior personnel, especially in the secondary.

    I'm very excited to see what the defense has in store this year, especially with all the new parts. I think aside from Jordan I'm looking forward to seeing what they have in Ellerbe and Jamar Taylor.
     
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  12. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Bradley used a Bear front under Carroll.

    [​IMG]


    .... and here's the 43 under.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I read this and strangely enough the first thing I thought of was the scene in the movie "13 Days" where Kevin Costner's character tells the CIA analyst he wants to see Alexander Fomin and Khrushchev's chronologies lined up side-by-side. It'd be interesting to see who Coyle's crossed coaching paths with. He wasn't ever in the NFL until Lewis came to Cincinnati. Ironically enough, his first job was at the University of Cincinnati.
     
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  14. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    :jt0323::jt0323::jt0323:
     
  15. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I would hope we see alot of those two fronts this year. I think a bear front with various combinations of Wake, Jordan, Wheeler, Ellerbe, Starks mixed can put a lot pressure on the QB. IMO those are our best front 7 pass rushers. I think we could send three of those guys on any given play and be a nightmare for opposing QBs. I'm talking about '85 Bears scary (potentially).
     
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  16. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    [​IMG]

    They faked the gun run to Lynch and rolled Wilson right looking for the TE in the flat or Rice on the deep crosser. Fooled no one and Wake forced Wilson to throw it away.

    Me and you saw the same thing, Soliai and Wake predominantly to the strength with Odrick and Starks to the other side. On this play Starks and Soliai run a stunt, Starks slants across LG and Soliai loops behind him.

    I'm with you on the T/E stunt with Misi (Jordan) and Odrick. That or have him come straight off the edge, loop around to the A gap or drop into coverage. Lots of options, and because he's weak side with no TE to worry about he has a lot less to think about. He can just use his speed and athleticism to make plays.
     
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  17. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Soliai, Starks, Odrick down, Wake, Wheeler, Ellerbe, Jordan up? I'll have a helping of that.
     
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  18. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    GMJ, are you getting these screen shots from NFL Rewind, or some other source? I've been avoiding purchasing NFL Rewind, but these may have convinced me to pull the trigger on it. If not NFL Rewind, where did you find these? I've been looking for stuff like this from Miami, and the closest I've found are the Field Gulls guys covering the Seahawks.

    This has also been a pretty solid thread during a slow time when the other main news is about Aaron Hernandez and Armon Binns.

    I think the underlying theme of this year is that Miami has a lot of flexibility schematically, and perhaps they were more limited than we might think last year based on personnel. It'll be very interesting to see how they incorporate Dion Jordan into the lineup. I'm also intrigued to see what they do with Ellerbe and Wheeler. Last year they sugared gaps a lot with Dansby and Burnett, but a lot of times one or the other would drop into coverage; neither were very good blitzers IMO where as Ellerbe and Wheeler are, so that's something interesting to watch as well.

    Of course, the CB spot is a key one, maybe most key, to watch during camp. Brent Grimes and Richard Marshall are both coming back from serious injuries last season - how do they hold up? Does Miami give more of a look at Nolan Carroll? I think Jamar Taylor, if healthy, will earn a lot of snaps. Then you have Dimitri Patterson who appears to be the nickel guy for now, but has a bloated salary. Do you keep he and Richard Marshall both at their costs? R.J. Stanford played more down the stretch last year, as well as Julian Posey the last 2 weeks. And, Will Davis may be the best athlete of all these guys, but is pretty inexperienced. Lots to keep track of here.
     
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  19. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    That looks like the type of front we'd see from defenses last year, I can't wait to see how different the looks are now that Wallace is on board.
     
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  20. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's got the makings of a pretty solid 3-4 base defense if Miami were inclined to run that. I certainly think that's a lineup we could see this season, especially later on as Jordan gets more reps. It's certainly something they can incorporate out of the looks they ran last year as well.

    I caught an interview of Jordan with SB Nation, which was shortly after the rookie camp. They asked Jordan about playing DE and having his hand in the dirt, and he said he liked it. He'll get to rush the passer more often instead of dropping in coverage. That sounds like the makings of a plan to get him on the field early a la Aldon Smith with San Francisco and the more experience he gets, the more varied the things they ask him to do will get. I just hope that 1) they sign him before camp, 2) he's recovered from shoulder surgery, and 3) he's able to get stronger.
     
  21. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Yeah man, Game Rewind is the way to go, I'd never make it through summer w/o it. Even during the season it's a great value, much cheaper than Sunday ticket.

    This has also been a pretty solid thread during a slow time when the other main news is about Aaron Hernandez and Armon Binns.

    Couldn't have said it better. The depth and versatility that's been added is tremendous.

    I liked Sean Smith but getting rid of him was the right move. Carroll and Wilson were the 2-3 last year, they, Wilson especially, might not even make the team this year. No more RJ Stanford or Brian McCann. We won't be pigeonholed into playing specific coverages b/c our corners are one dimensional and/or refuse to tackle, ahem, Sean Smith. This year we'll be able to play press, off, man, zone, single high, 2 deep, 3 deep, whatever the game plan calls for. We can go big vs the run heavy teams, or small vs the pass happy teams w/ no drop off in talent. 4-3, 3-4, it doesn't matter, we've got the personnel to play both w/o a drop off. Cam Wake won't be the only hope for getting to the QB any more either.

    And I think we added a few new pieces on offense as well.
     
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  22. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I might have to bite the bullet on Game Rewind then. You've found some good stuff.
     
  23. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    haha, that's funny b/c that's against an I formation, Adrian Peterson no less, and with Minnesota backed against their own 10.
     
  24. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Are you implying that defenses played the run against us last year even though we had Hartline and Bess tearing up the league?!??!?!?!??!?!??!?!??!??!?!?
     
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  25. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    On paper we're a similar athleticism level to that of the Niners, and even our front 7's stature is similarly. The only difference would be we'd probably want to 2-gap Soliai where they 1-gap their nose tackle.

    Speaking of San Fran and Aldon Smith. I think we're thinking inside the box here regarding our base defense, and you mentioning our limited personnel made me think of this. Every scenario we come up with we pigeonhole Wake as the LE because he's predominately a left side only guy, leaving us trying to figure out what to do with Jordan, but it seems we're using preconceived notions based on last year's defense to come up with answers. Bringing up Aldon Smith made me think of something of one possible answer. Why not keep Wake on the left, put Jordan on the right, and let where ever the tight end lines up determine who's the pass rusher and who's at SAM? If the TE lines up on our right, Odrick is the 5-tech end with Jordan the SAM across from the TE and Wake rushing from the left side per usual. If the TE lines up on our left, Wake becomes the SAM [just like he was in our 3-4], the Dline shifts, and Jordan rushes from right end. ?? We have the athleticism, flexibility, and pass rush ability to do this, where as we didn't last year. Doesn't have to be the full time base D but we could mix it in frequently I'd think. I'm pretty sure San Fran does this with Ahmad Brooks and Aldon, except they're probably rushing from a stand up position, but the concept still applies.
     
  26. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Miami actually near the bottom of the league in terms of facing eight in the box:

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/05/08/facing-eight-in-the-box/
     
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  27. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Definitely, especially for the coach's film option that shows each play from 2 angles, birds eye view at that.
     
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  28. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

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    That depends on the offensive formation. We won't have our Sam on our right side if the offense has their tight end inline on the offensive right.
     
  29. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

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    When do the games become available on Game Rewind during the season? How long after a game is over before they have it?
     
  30. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Technically 24 hours after the game concludes. But usually not until Tuesday morning.
     
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  31. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

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    I may change then from Sunday Ticket. I can watch the locally televised games on Sunday, and watch the Dolphins on Game Rewind 2 days later. It does not bother me to know the outcome before watching a game for the first time. This could save at least $200 in the difference between the cost of the two.
     
  32. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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  33. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    I switched last season and it was fine...of course, I live out of town, so I don't get any Fins games anyways, but I love a few of the features...the condensed version, coaches tape, etc...good enough for me...
     
  34. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    That doesn't mean a thing regarding the way defenses played us.

    A) Defenses don't have to put 8 in the box to play compressed and focus on the run. Safeties can cheat up significantly and sell out the pass in the process with defenses playing us in a 20 yard box at a time (like GM's still shot below clearly shows), just as numerous players and coaches mentioned during the season. See there, the free safety is 7 friggin' yards off the LOS and creeping forward while the strong safety nearly has his back to Hartline. This might not be "8 in the box" but Indy is clearly focused on stopping the run while ignoring pass.

    B) We faced a lot of Cover 2 if I remember correctly, and not b/c defenses were focused on the pass (just as the pic below demonstrates). It's because we didn't have the personnel and ability to force defenses out of that coverage. Defenses could basically play us however the heck they wanted. If you understand Cover 2 you know the scheme inherently means little or no use of 8 in the box b/c it's a 2 high safety look. Typically, Cover 2 man [below] is weaker vs the run and stronger vs the pass b/c the corners can press while having safety help behind them. Only difference against us is both safeties are more concerned with aiding the run than providing help over the top, leaving the corners on an island (like Indy below and GM's N.E. still shots display too). So Cover 2 in this case is almost like 10 in the box for all intents and purposes b/c you have both safeties at a shallower depth looking to support the run, where as a typical 8 in the box has one safety up to make the 8th man while the other is deep aiding the pass, so their safety duties are split equally between run and pass while what we saw had both safeties looking run. All in all I'd say 7 in the box with 2 safeties nearby looking run is as tough to run against than 8 in the box with a deep safety no where in sight.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    It's a different down and distances but the same concept applies- less attention toward the receivers, and if less attention is going toward the receivers then obviously it means more attention is going else where.
     
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  35. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    by watching the games and listening to opposing players and coaches talk about how they played us?
     
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  36. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Maybe one shouldn't take stats so literally.:shifty:
     
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  37. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    All of this stuff isn't really necessary. Look at it in the most granular context possible. Count the number of Miami jerseys in the box, and count the number of defensive jerseys in the box. Stopping the run is nothing more than a numbers game. Teams aren't playing safeties out of the box because their magic 8-ball tells them to.
     
  38. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    They develop because people want reality to form around their opinions.
     
  39. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    IIRC the Sunday games are available Monday morning, but not during Monday Night football, all games are available on Tuesday morning.
     
  40. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    They're not abstract ideas, they're observations I've made after watching each game/play several times. Enough to the point where I can laugh at the PFF numbers. Take that for what it's worth, but anyone who says teams were not overplaying the run vs Miami week in and week out, I have to question whether or not they really watch the games.
     
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