New OTA fix..

Seriously. I don't understand how you can enact a free agency strategy as if you already know exactly who you're drafting in the 1st round, when you pick at #12 overall. Doing that would be like fantasy football dumb. Bad fantasy football dumb. Like Taco from The League drafting all kickers dumb.

 

LOL.

Agree, it was dumb. I chalk it up as a blemish on the offseason, one that's hopefully overshadowed by the other moves and picks we made.

 

To clarify, I'm not saying signing Gibson is dumb. I'm saying that if you did it because you "knew" you were getting Tavon Austin at 12 overall, then THAT is Taco-dumb. Way too many variables in the draft to operate that way unless you're picking #1 overall.

The other thing to keep in mind is they didn't have to trade Bess. If they were counting on getting Austin then they already knew they weren't getting Austin by the time they traded Davone Bess to the Browns. They could've nixed that deal. They went through with it, knowing Brandon Gibson was next-man-up at the slot receiver position.

I think either there's a disconnect between the coaching staff and the front office, or the front office really does think Gibson can play the slot if that's what you need. I just don't agree with them and we'll end up seeing if I'm completely wrong or not. It's happened.

 

Technically speaking, Bess was the number 2 so he's being replaced by Hartline, who was replaced by Wallace. Gibson is replacing Nannee, Armstrong, Gaffney, Matthews etc. Jeez our receivers sucked last year. I'm amazed we were able to complete a single pass.

 

That's what I thought you meant. Agree on the signing of Gibson not being dumb, only that I would've preferred if it made him our #4. Bailey would've been a better fit and fallback option, but hopefully things work out.

 

I think you have stumbled on to the correct answer for WHY Bess was replaced with Gibson. I still believe Philbin has no use for a modern day shifty slot specialist. I think he prefers guys who just now how to play WR.

 

Ideally you're doing both but I'd think the would tend more towards the former than the latter.

 

I was thinking more in lines of the 3rd round with Davis. Got no qualms with the Taylor pick.

 

That's the way I see it. I think we planned to sign Gibson while drafting Austin to replace Bess in the slot. If not Austin, Keller as a back up plan for the main slot guy.

 

Yes, this. Will Davis is a bit of a head scratcher to me.

 

I'm not sure they signed anyone with that firm a plan of the draft. Gibson was signed with the idea that they might draft more skill position players, but I'd really doubt it would be with the idea that they would specifically draft Tavon Austin. I can't see NFL franchises planning to be that concrete and specific, they picked a guy who would be reasonably good in a "starting" role, but also whom they wouldn't be grossly inefficient if they found something else to focus on.

There's something to be said for the team organically coming into an identity. You've got four of your five skill position players basically filled, drafting a high 1st round pick for a slot receiver basically means you're an "11" team and you've ****ed up if you don't end up doing that short and long-term and it's to the exclusion of a lot of other players and elements. It'd be better to cultivate a lot of irons in the fire and if something works really well, follow it because of that and not because of your resource expenditure.

 

All this B. Gibson negativity is really bumming me out.

 

Quinton Patton.

Incidentally for me the Will Davis pick isn't so much where I'd start the "WTF?" campaign. It was the Dallas Thomas pick. At that pick you still could've had Stedman Bailey, Markus Wheaton, Quinton Patton or Marquise Goodwin...if you're thinking about receivers. If you were thinking about an OL then I would have much preferred Hugh Thornton. If you're bent on Jon Martin being a left tackle, as the Dolphins seem to be, you could have had Brennan Williams for a right tackle. Could've done any number of things that make more sense than Dallas Thomas.

 

Miami was interested in Josh Boyce whom the Pats snagged right before the Jelani Jenkins pick.

 

There's some strange ideas floating around and I'm not sure where they come from or how wise they are.

This idea that "we don't want slot receivers, we want good receivers" seems to me almost like pure political hocum.

Davone Bess was in the slot 70% of the time. And even when he wasn't technically in the slot, he was still lined up inside the numbers a good amount of those other 30% of snaps, which is something that Greg Cosell would point out is virtually the same as being in the slot even if technically there isn't a receiver lined up outside of him.

If Brandon Gibson is going to replace him, how do you expect him to be a "good receiver" if he's NOT a "good slot receiver"?

How are we going to use all of these receivers if none of them play in the slot? SOMEONE has to play there, if you've got more than two wide receivers on the field at the same time. In 2011 under Joe Philbin, Green Bay had 636 routes being run by wide receivers out of the slot.

It all comes out very vague, jumbled, contradictory and impossible to follow. It's an Escher argument.

 

Its a thankless job actually making the pick. All of us get to "freely" speculate and second guess with no historical consequences. The main thing about the draft, regardless of position or player, you have to just worry about the ones you get, not the ones you don't. Of course, as fans, we'll get to "revise" our pics regularly...deny ever wanting the bust and claim to have wanted the star. And yet we remain

I basically think the makeup of our team at WR and OL is strong, even with none drafted and Dallas Thomas in lieu of this player or that one. Am I right, is someone else? Who knows. We'll let the season (this year and next) play out and see how we play and how those players fit on our team.

 

I think CB was in more need of draft time reinforcement than any position, WR and TE were probably the least in need. At CB we had Grimes (1 yr), Marshall (2), Patterson (1), Carroll, Wilson, McCann, Stanford. At WR we had 5 guys who the coaches/staff seem to like, all under contract for the next several years. I'm all for taking a special player even if it's not a need, but once we didn't get Austin I don't see the point in going WR unless it was a Keenan Allen in the 3rd round type of value.

 

Bess played the slot 70% (and inside the numbers) because he was limited there by his abilities/size. basically we ran an offense that had a dedicated slot receiver last year, because we had to, since he was the second best receiver we had and he couldn't play anywhere else. Gibson was brought in to replace Bess not as a dedicated slot receiver but as a receiver that wouldn't have to be a dedicated slot receiver.

 

Under Joe Philbin, Donald Driver was in the slot 78.5% of the time in 2008, 76.5% of his snaps in 2009 and 71.6% of his snaps in 2010. In 2011, Driver was in the slot on 65.1% of his snaps, and Randall Cobb was in the slot 62.1% of his snaps.

This notion that Joe Philbin doesn't employ guys who are mostly slot receivers...I just don't get it.

 

See, I think Philbin wants a team with interchangeable wrs. I don't think he's always had that, so he adapts his formations to the players he has. I believe if he could waive a magic wand, he'd have 5 WRs that are all pretty similar each with some ability(ies) that might be better than the others, which would give him the opportunity to exploit what the defense presents.

If the defense is showing a weakness in stopping the slot, then Cobb plays more in the slot, because Cobb has the extra ability to be the dynamic human joystick type player. It doesn't mean the intent from day one was to have Cobb in the slot 62.1% of the time.

 

Bailey will be better than Allen.

 

What does James Jones have to do with this?

He's the complete flip side of the coin of this argument. Supposedly if Philbin doesn't like slot-only players, he also wouldn't like outside-only players either, right? Except in 2008 James Jones only played the slot 18.2% of the time, then 7.2% of the time in 2009, 7.7% of the time in 2010, and 9.1% of the time in 2011. Was James Jones the model of the versatility that Philbin supposedly craves?

Or Jordy Nelson, for that matter. He had ONE year where he played in the slot a decent percentage of the time (41% of the time in 2010). Otherwise he took only 15.6%, 11.0% and 8.5% of his snaps from the slot in the other three years when Joe Philbin was the OC. Was he the model of Joe Philbin's stated goals of versatility?

Reality is the only player who truly and consistently played inside and outside with the stated versatility would be Greg Jennings, who took 29%, 25%, 34% and 50% of his snaps from the slot over the time period.

Yet, when he was a free agent this year, the Dolphins snubbed him completely, and chose instead the guy in Mike Wallace who has clearly been a perimeter specialist both at the college level and at the pro level.

Hmmmm....

 

Yea 3rd round is when the draft kinda went down-hill for me, holding picks 77 and 82 I would've preferred a receiver with our first pick instead of Dallas Thomas, especially when a run on them had just begun with two of the previous three picks being Terrence Williams and Keenan Allen, then you have a couple WR-needy teams in Buffalo and Pittsburgh picking directly after us at 78 and 79...no surprise Goodwin and Wheaton get taken back to back after we passed on them. Thomas probably would have been there at 82 anyway.

Then we trade down out of the 3rd round just to trade back into it to take a corner with a 5th round grade.

 

There has to be some method to his madness, Philbin is far from dumb. If a primary slot guy was his agenda he wouldn't of dumped Bess so easily and they would have put more of an emphasis on it via the draft.

I think they would prefer a playmaking guy inside, but to me losing Bess wasn't a big deal at all.

I have to assume they have a plan.

 

I thought Allen would have been a steal at that slot, however if Thomas can give us the LG we've lacked..well forever..then I can live with that move.

Richie I is a solid LG, but I've always thought he's a limited player which makes him upgradeable.

FWIW, OmarK ponitificated that Dion Jordan will simply be a third down passrusher.

My gut tells me OmarK is rather wrong, his skillset is to good to have him simply be a situational passrusher.

 

Philbin was merely the OC in Green Bay. Maybe he didn't have as much say in who was acquired as he does here. Maybe the point of versatility isn't that a player plays 33% of his snaps each at 3 different positions.

 

Pro Football Focus

 

I think it's very difficult for people to separate the personnel side of the business from the coaching side of the business but it's well to remember they ARE separate and we shouldn't treat every single move (or non-move) made in the off season as if it were a Joe Philbin sponsored, researched and approved event.

Joe Philbin has said before that he does not believe in micro managing people. He allows them to do their job. The personnel department's job is to get him the best players they can get him and his job is to coach them.