How the Dolphins won the offseason

I don't want to get into this too in depth, because you being new here, you don't realize how much this has been talked to death, so I'll just break down part of your comparisons.

Wallace vs Marshall. Being big name WRs does not mean Marshall was our Wallace before Wallace. Marshall is the prototype Parcells WR. He is basically the super version of Keyshawn Johnson. A big, tall, strong but slow possession receiver.

You cannot just say we grabbed Marshall and now we have to grab Wallace as if that all happened in a vacuum. Many of the players that Ireland acquired BP (before Philbin) were players suited to a Parcellian approach at team building. You cannot get more opposite to that approach than Philbin's approach. That polar opposite philosophy is going to leave many players as a poor fit. That is not a flaw in Ireland, Parcells or Philbin.

If I owned a restaurant that was an Italian food joint and I wanted to switch it to Chinese food joint, I'd have to get rid of a lot of ingredients/supplies/decor/etc no matter how good they were because they are not going to fit my new theme. This is no different.

We must judge the job done based on the different philosophies used.

 

Parcells bad. Ireland good. We make mistakes before but we fix now. Fins up!

Is that better? Have I been sufficiently assimilated to the post game system now?

i don't know what is trite here because i just got here and I don't know what sports talk radio banality you are referring to but I am fairly certain everything I said was a fact. The Miami dolphins have been hamsters in a wheel for the better part of a half decade.

I am eager for the season to start and I am hopeful the team is building towards a future. I like philbin. I am optimistic about tannehill. But to state much beyond that is baseless. I am not some dolphins sycophant who is going to view everything from a glass half full perspective. I've been a dolphins fan for too long to not know better.

 

you state you don't know who Ireland is and what he is capable of, yet your obviously frustrated with the past 13 years....well, yeah, we're all in the same boat in that dept, but your thought seems to be missing something very important, and that is a reasonable timeline to judge the current Gm so we know what we have moving forward, and to do that you must let go of the past 13 years, and Ronnie browns of the world, and differentiate the regimes thru legitimate analysis of the variables in play..

You sound like a smart guy, but at the same time, you sound like your feelings from the past have infected your ability to assess the current direction of the team..

Quite simply, I have no idea as to what your talking about, you will lose me every time when you talk about issues that common sense could tell me ireland had nothing to do with, this topic is about fairly assessing the GM position, how would you like to do that?

 

that's because your first post was lacking in the common sense dept..you said it's a fact that we have been futile as an organization for the past 13 years, yes, I agree to an extent, but what exactly does that have to do with Ireland?

Do you like joe Philbin,?

Do you think Parcells made personnel decisions when he took the job as a first time pres?

Do you think Parcells or Ireland hired Sparano?

Once again, Do you think that Parcells would allow Ireland to pick the groceries?, like seriously?

And what does Ronnie brown or anyone pre Ireland have to do with Jeff Ireland?

I get that your not happy with the dolphins franchise for a long time, but when do you let that go so you can accurately judge what's goin on in the present?

 

I know it's easy to say that because of our futility the past 15 years we should be pissed at everyone until someone changes the dynamic, but how exactly is that good analysis as to what's going on today? Shouldn't every man who gets the gig of building a team get a clean slate, and shouldn't variables be taken into account when trying to figure out when that timeline should start?

 

No, he's making a joke [toward me], something that many posters do on here since much of us have known each other long enough to either develop a respectful, good-humored relationship or deplore the ground the other walks on, but usually the former.

As for the smiley face, it's to inform me he's just playin' around or being funny. Has nothing to do with acting like a teenager. After all, communication is only 7% verbal, therefore, emoticons [aka smileys] can come in handy to illustrate emotions behind posts since our actual facial expressions are unseeable here, especially if a post can be interpreted multiple ways like when we're intentionally acting silly or sarcastic and want to ensure others aren't taking it literally. If you think you're too good for a jolly 'ole smiley face then so be it; I won't judge you for it.

I, myself, use a bevy of 'em and will continue doing so regardless of how girly you think it makes me look...... although, looking girly might do wonders for getting FinD to cease & desist all ruffie attempts.

 

you are way too sensitive on the Ireland aspect of all of this. I am neither for nor against Ireland at this point. My post was not a referendum on his performance here either.

This thread started with the concept that the Miami Dolphins won the offseason. What i was trying to shed some light on (which i am sure has become a belabored point on this site, sorry I am new) is that all of these great signings we made were all signings used to plug holes that existed only because the previous attempts at fillings some of those holes proved to be failures.

We won the offseason the year we got Dansby and Marhsall did we not?

Yet that proved to be totally fruitless in the long run and now we are replacing Dansby and Marshall with Ellerbee and Wallace.

I understand the inclination to be excited and optimistic, for if we aren't going to be that then what is the point of even looking forward to the season. On the other hand, we have plenty of recent history that should remind us that perhaps we need to temper our enthusiasm.

 

What i meant by Marshall being Wallace before Wallace being Wallace was that we've been down the road before where we felt we signed our #1 receiver before and because of that colossal failure we are now in the position of spending big on another wide receiver rather than upgrading other positions of need.

This thread was about "winning the offseason". All I was commenting on was it's difficult to consider this a huge win when all we constantly do replace parts where we thought we had fixed the issues in the first place.

This is not a bash ireland moment. I am rooting for him for certain. But I think the self congratulatory sense of "we won the offseason" is a bit overdone. We've blown so many offseasons for so many straight years here that I'd like to see these guys actually play before being so happy about this offseason's results. Not to mention that if we actually did win it... it'd be about time.

But I appreciate you not hitting me with snark, condescension and defensiveness. Thus far you are the first person whose writing has seemed even. Thanks.

 

Glad to see a new person on the board, Rances. And don't get caught up in the snarkieness (I think my spell check just had a heart attack!) Some of these guys have been snapping ******** with each other for way too many years - and a certain amount will overflow without any regard for new folks around. I've been posting with some of these guys as far back as Shula and Marino - which sounds like ancient history to me now. So, relax, get to know some of them, and figure out which part of the neighborhood fits you best. Most aren't half as bad as they sound - and keyboards really don't have a lot of room for inflection.

Yoiks, and AWAY!!

 

This last bit was totally uncalled for and unnecessary and you should probably apologize for it. Guy came in here without agenda and gave his opinion about the off season.

 

You're frustrated because it looks like you don't understand the actual topic of the thread. The topic of the thread (which you'll notice in the title) is whether the Dolphins won the off season. Or is this your way of showing that subconsciously you've begun to equate Jeff Ireland with the Miami Dolphins? Would certainly explain a few things, taking offense to any argument against the Dolphins' off season to where you feel it necessary to start taking jabs at new, thoughtful members of the board. This screams of emotional defensiveness and if indeed you have begun to equate Jeff Ireland with the Miami Dolphins, then your strong loyalty to the Dolphins would certainly explain that.

 

Have you heard or read me talking playoff victories?

I actually think considering everything ( 2nd year head coach, youth, Qb youth), nine and seven I would be happy with regardless of playoffs..

As far as the offseason goes, I think he replaced players with players that neither you or me know whether he had hand in selecting, no?

I can't assess blame on the guy with how strong of a conviction I have when it comes to the Parcells acquisition..I just can't blindly blame him when my common sense tells me Parcells was in charge of buying the expensive groceries for a franchise in serious trouble.

When it comes to free agency and draft, My excitement is because we aggressively pursued talented young players, because we had the money to do so, and the sense to make a deal and go after a blue chip ball player..

 

I'm sure he's a grown man, and can handle what I said, i welcomed him to the board, Rances, in your first post you starting talking about the past, deep into the past actually, I thought the concept of this thread was to put into context what kind of offseason this was relative to Ireland's timeline as a GM, and to establish that timeline we cannot use the far past as the barometer for future endeavors, common sense would tell us that no?

Again, welcome to the board, I can tell you have something to say, but I think your first post was evidence of some bitterness of what's its been like being a dolphin fan, jmo, I do understand your point about recent failures cancelling out our new acquisitions, however, like I've been saying, it's hard for me to assess blame considering the conditions Parcells was hired under.

 

Meh...that's not the way I read it...sounded to me that in addition to structuring the cap to fall with room, they traded those guys to be able to have the extra picks...as if they had already decided that those guys weren't part of the future...???

 

First off, Rances....welcome to the board bro...

Second, the bottom line is that while mistakes have obviously been made in the past, many of them were mistakes based on the poor coaching staff, the previous boss of the outfit (Quitcells) and have nothing to do with the moves that were made this year. For example (and this is just one), but the Dansby and Burnett moves were not bad moves when they were made or with what they've brought to the team. Those guys served us adequately for several years, but they simply don't fit in with this coaching staff's MO and what they want to accomplish and they were getting older and higher paid. Moving them out to get younger, more athletic and cheaper was a smart move. Not that 4 yrs ago those moves were bad.

When you change regimes (well, in our case it was the coaching staff), there are going to be pieces that don't fit in from the old staff. I think that a GM has to look at each offseason as it's own entity with an eye on future. You make a move (draft or fa) and it doesn't work out, you move on or continue to have the same problems every year...

There is a history of battle on this board between the Irish guys and the Irish bashers, just like on other boards. There are those on both sides of this that no matter what is done is not good enough to prove Irish is still a goof ball or is the next Ozzie Newsome (depending on where you side on the subject). So you come on strong in opinion that has been mulled over for years and years here, and you did, you'll get someone to bounce back at ya....

 

I understand what you're saying, I just take exception to phrases like "colossal failure" or saying we didn't "win" the offseason because of things that happened in the past. The reason i take exception, is because a lot these decisions weren't actually failures. I don't think the talent acquisition aspect of our team has been poor. I think for a Parcells system, you cannot pick better players than Marshall or Henne or Long for example. They are 3 of the most perfect examples of Parcells players at their respective positions. I think the fact that because Penny was deficient at NFL caliber passes beyond 15 yards we needed to use the WildCat. If that never happened, I think there's a solid chance Sparano, Henne, Marshall & Long are still here and we're a perennial 9-7, 10-6 team and people aren't questioning our offseasons to such harsh degrees.

 

I don't think it was a jab, I think the Ronnie brown comment he mentioned gave me a clue as to where his statement was coming from.

As far as Ireland, I've clearly stated my position before the offseason began, I'm legitimately trying to figure out what a fair timeline is because I think that's what's most important to the structure of our franchise moving forward..I had no loyalty to Ireland going into this offseason, it was do or die this offseason, I just happen to respect the job he did this offseason, even though there was a couple players I would of went in a different direction on, overall I'm pleased on paper.

 

Your attempt to figure out if he had any deep underlying biases based on one post was an attempt to figure out a way of disregarding a thoughtful argument because it strikes you as unpleasant. And I think you should apologize for it. The guy came in here and said what he thought of the MIAMI DOLPHINS off season. You came in here and decided to tell him what you think OF HIM. Can you see how that's off topic and insulting?

 

I'll go back and reread

 

Hmmm, I do think if you have issues with the deep past then it can affect your ability to fairly assess blame and quantify certain aspects of the present..I'm not sure this deserves an apology, but I do think the guy has something to say, I just wanted him to know that Ronnie brown comments and such tell me where your coming from..

 

To me, the franchise hit the wall in 2006, when Saban failed it was with a very veteran team filled with salary cap difficulties and very poor drafting the previous 5 drafts, that trend continued through 2008 in point of fact.

Missing in Ginn, Brown, Long leaving, Merling, hurt the overall direction of the franchise.

We did go from 2-14 to 9-7 to 6-10 to 1-15 over that time span, this all with a veteran team.

Even w/Parcells

11-5/7-9/7-9

The roster did get younger, the problem was those young guys just did not develop from 08-10.

Other reason, imo, is they went with the blue collar prototype save for VD, he was explosive and a good player, but otherwise we were looking for buicks' when we needed porsches.

 

If everyone were to re read my original post theyd see there is nothing in there that is an indictment on Ireland and his efficacy as a general manager. As my first post, I actually tried very hard to keep it as non confrontational as possible. So I was quite taken aback when I saw the first few responses. Almost to the point that I regretted signing up for this board because I don't want to feel this is a place where a cult just blindly follows the fins propaganda machine. I wanna have some real good Fins talk because I am fascinated by them. But, Someone just above quoted me as if i had said that there were " colossal failures". I never said that.

The issue here is there is tons of emotional baggage that has been built up through the years of Pro/Con Ireland partisanship. I made a comment solely in context of this offseason and it's relevance to previous offseasons. Now several Pro Ireland people have come on the attack when i never questioned him.

Ireland backers are so tired of backing Ireland that their natural response is one of aggression in the face of anything that they infer to be anti Ireland. Theyre so invested in the Dolphins being on the rise that they're now invested in Ireland being on the rise because if he isn't that means the Dolphins aren't.

The key word there is Infer. I didn't IMPLY that Ireland was to blame for past failures. Several people INFERRED that. I am rooting for him to be right. I don't want him to be a failure. But until I can evaluate his actual performance then I will neither absolve him of all blame nor just blindly fault him for things that may or may not have been his doing.

I like many on here am just ready as hell for the games to begin. That will give us something of real merit to discuss.

 

9 and 7 won't be acceptable?

 

Well if that's the kind of poster you want to be, toward a new member who looks like he puts a little bit of thought into his posts and by all means has never taken any "side" on the whole Jeff Ireland thing, then that's on you.

 

I'm glad you showed up and started posting because it's really exposing some of the deep flaws in this forum that have been degrading the level of discourse here for a while. The fact that the reaction to your post (which clearly brought the focus of the subject down onto YOU and not the subject) made you regret signing up on this forum...kind of says it all.

 

First of all, you did use the phrase colossal failure:

Which is what I was referring to.

Secondly, I think what you're witnessing is the "PTSD" from a year long battle on this web site. Its unfortunate, but it exists.

 

Trouble is, Padre... we got too many Yugos in the mix. Remaining Players as best I can figure: 2/10 in 2007, 0/9 in 2008, 3/9 in 2009 (If Gardner is still here!), and 2010 - 5/8 (and a couple of them might be out of desperation!)

 

Not in the key positions that the guys who are gone were in.

Soliai/Fields NT/P
08/-0-
09/ Hartline ( who did develop) and Clemons (who is decent)
10/Odie/Misi (who may just be a backup this year)Jerry and Jones (who did develop)

NT
P
Wr
FS
SS
DE
OLB
RG
SS

1 Wr, 1 DE, 1 FS, 1 SS

Those are the holdovers in what one could call impact positions, of the 4, Jones and Hartline did develop, Odrick is Odie, and Clemons is probably a weak link in terms of playmaking.

2 of 4 of them are not true playmakers, Fields is actually top 5.

Long story short, you can see where they upgraded in 11/12/13 and in FA's.

Subtract the seat warmers and add in the new guys:

Sean Smith/Taylor and Grimes
Fasano/Keller
Long/Arguable, but we are not being mugged by the Cap
Bess/Wallace/Gibson

Reggie Bush though, remains a huge playmaking subtraction, we don't know if Miller can step in and make plays and stay healthy. Daniel Thomas is just on the bubble, no other way to say it.

 

i said that after the blowback came. my original post which is what started all of this didn't use any such term. but i did use it afterwards. sorry that's on me.

 

I appreciate your thoughts and perspective on how things went down here. There is really no need for DJphinfan to apologize, he didn't really take any shots. No need for apologies anywhere on here.

I can absolutely see how the ireland back and forth has created some real cognitive dissonance here. One thing is for sure, once the games start we will all be very very relieved to have something else to discuss.

Gotta be honest, the Miami Heat have my full attention right now but I am looking forward to find a Dolphins community. Ive been to the site before as a guest and I know there is some real insight and good writers, yourself lead among them. Looking forward to a great season.

i can only imagine how intense the Public Finance Debate became on this site. I bet that was fun as hell.

 

You know what i think is really interesting here is I am not so sure that the Record has to be what defines this team this season. I don't think any of us believes that this is a team that is on the verge of a huge leap. I think the team can take a small leap forward that gives us plenty of reason to believe the huge leap is imminent, irrespective of wins and losses.

The NFL is such a random league at times. So many games are decided by one possession scores. I am more interested in the journey to the final record this season as opposed to the record itself.

Can this team trust Ryan Tannehill?
Can this team trust Philbin with his direction of the team, can we trust we won't be changing systems yet again?
Is there a reason to believe that the team has found Game Breakers? Can we score in bursts as opposed to slow burns?
DId we find Game Exploders on defense? People who get their hands on the ball and wreck drives?

If the answers to these questions are clearly positive, then should it matter that the team finishes 7 and 9 because of a couple of plays? Or that the team went 9 and 7 because those couple of particular plays happened to go in our favor?

The process is what is important this season. Steps forward taken by a second year coach and quarterback. Those are the keys to this season. The results will come if the process in place is one to be trusted.

 

Can you all just shut up and hit the restart button?

 

ha! agreed. that's what I thought I did with my last post! Record Talk! LOL.

And go Smileys!

 

We were two Carpenter misses from very reasonable distances from being 9-7 last season. So, just 9-7 and sitting at home for the playoffs would not be a successful season IMO.

 

Agree, unless 9-7 buys us a playoff birth, that is just not good enough, especially with the laundry list of players about to hit FA.

I'm not joking when I said the Browns game is huge for us, we should mop the floor with them.

 

restart submitted. Now all you need to do is post a Smiley face to initiate it. lol
Welcome aboard BTW.

 

your overreacting...period..I welcomed the dude, told him he was smart, then told him what I disagreed with and why.if he has a problem with me and he thinks my post about him taking his past frustrations out on the present was out of bounds then I will certainly apoligize...he sounded smart and frustrated to me, all at the same time, I'm trying to figure out what a goddamn proper timeline is on the GM, if you got something to say about that, then say it, but don't give me we've sucked so much in the past crap..

Rances, hope to see ya around the board..the gentleman above insinuating that this site has a problem is just mad because we had to tear Heath Evans a new ******* for his unquestioned and visible bias.

Edit post..took it to far..

 

Maybe some will disagree,but I've tried to keep my mind totally open on Ireland, and if someone, anyone can prove to me that Ireland was picking hi profile and hi salary players when Bill the legend Parcells got the gig off a 1 and 15 season I'm all ears, but I swear my common sense tells me that would be ridiculous..the best I've heard is his title says "GM", or that we should question his manhood for taking the title and allowing the legend make decisions over him..

This all gets frustrating when people think that just because some are trying to find a reasonable timeline to accurately judge this Gm were called some sort of cult or name that insinuates that we're just some homers..

You do not wanna go in that public finance forum..

 

I agree that this team, 2nd year Qb, 2nd year coach, youngest team in league, should not have a playoff or bust mindset from the fanbase, 2 more wins is an acceptable plane of ascension, I say that because I have my own personal timeline from what is a fair starting point to judge this whole thing.

 

this site has a lot of great heat fans, the owners started their own heat website as well, check out the other sports forums, some cool folks.