Jamar and Will D impress staff..other good nuggets..

Agreed with his best game being the Indy game, that or maybe Jacksonville or Seattle. No one really seems to mention it but Gaffney dropped what could have been run in for a TD late in that game for the win. Also if Dansby catches that shoulda-been interception....or if Sean Smith and Nolan Carroll didn't totally suck that game. Tannehill should have beaten Luck that day.

 

You are too in love with Luck and not in love enough with Tannehill. If Tanny had Luck's weapons and Luck had Tanny's weapons, that becomes a different game and narrative. Tanny kept up with Luck that game and he did it with less surrounding talent and less experience.

 

I hate Irsay and the Colts. He's an underhanded creep like his old man.

And it really annoys me that for the second straight year we have to play them in Indy. Especially since they are tough at home, and crap on the road. We would have handled them easily last year in Miami.

 

Luck had a good game for sure, but he had a few passes that should have been picked and in general like you agreed with me on our corners were sh#t. We only lost by 3 and I don't recall Tannehill throwing anything close to an interception that day.....and that drop by Gaffney killed us

 

Dansby dropped a touchdown that game.

 

Additionally, SSmith could have single-handedly secured the Colts game as a win for us if he could have held onto the INT from Luck that he had in his hands and merely fell to the ground with it. Instead, he got overly excited and dropped lost it and we lost the game. After years of watching SSmith, I am so damn happy he is no longer a fin.

 

Not really. You have these guys on a pedestal and aren't really factoring in the experience and surrounding talent they have that Tanny just didn't. I'm sorry, but if Luck only had Hartline and Bess his numbers would be way closer to Ryan's.

 

That's just a saying that sounds good but doesn't really pass the sniff test.

You were in love with Luck, RGIII & Wilson and you had questions about Tannehill, before they were drafted. That means it will take more for you to see the first 3's flaws and Ryan's gifts.

Bess and Hartline were far and away the worst #1 & #2 WRs last year (and in quite awhile). The got poor separation, couldn't stay on their feet with the ball, lacked the speed and agility to go deep, and were essentially never open in the endzone. Hartline and Vincent Jackson had virtually the same amount of catches, yet VJ had more yards, TDs, first downs, 20+ yrd receptions, YAC, yrds/g.

You cannot tell me that is because of Freeman. If you cannot tell me that is because of Freeman, then you have to acknowledge that the difference in receiving talent and how that effects the QB's performance. Imagine what Tannehill would look like if Hartline did as much with his catches as VJ did.

You talk about clutch performances, but if the receiver isn't open, how can Ryan get him the ball? Ryan would have had 2 more come from behind victories if the kicker makes the kick.

Even if you want to stick to the "only QB makes everyone around him better" philosophy and never the other way around, then please explain how Hartline had his best year ever in the pros with Tannehill? All these other QBs you worship, didn't take a consistently poor receiver and make them respectable. Think about it, Hartline went from 81st in yardage (549 yrds, which was the norm for him) to 16th, and instead of Tanny getting the credit, I'm told good QBs raise the WRs game so it doesn't matter he had poor talent around him.

 

IMO Luck, Wilson and RG3 were better out of the gate at knowing when and how to extend a play. Then RT's leg injury slowed him down even more. But RT really improved in that regard during the final quarter of the season after his leg recovered some. By then he was almost at Luck's level in that aspect of his game. RG3 was always the fastest of the group, but he takes a ton of unnecessary hits. If I were a Skin fan I'd want him to run less b/c I don't think he'll last. He just doesn't seem to feel or see them coming. Wilson was and is the best of the group in terms of instinct. I would put that aspect of RT's game up there with the others behind only Wilson at this point (among the rooks). I expect a very CKap like feel to RT's game this year.

 

so your are with shou on this one....the QB´s makes the receivers ?

 

QBs can certainly make the receivers. There is however a cap at how much a QB can do with a WR though.

I think people believe if Marino was the QB, he would have made Hartline into a 1500 yrd, 10 Td WR, which is not true. Hartline has a ceiling and reached it. He's simply not going to be much better than he was last year. He may finish with more TDs, but not many more.

I just take exception with this notion that Tannehill didn't raise the level of play of his receivers and that all these other QBs would have made a Hartline great. And if a fan can see what I saying, then they have to admit that Tannehill was also a victim of poor receiver play.

 

We'd have handled them easily if we could stretch the field on offense or make a single play in the secondary. And looky here comes Wallace/Keller, and 5 new DBs. I don't care where the game is, we're going to smash them and I'm going to love it.

 

I'm not upset with you. You're just biased by your previously held opinions and not looking at things as they actually are.

Tannehill has everything you classify as pocket talent and everything you classify as play making ability/QB athleticism. His 2 biggest problem were lack of experience and lack of anything that resembled a #1 WR. You never seem to count those in your assessments.

You have to understand that what we have in Tannehill is a slightly less Aaron Rodgers with a slightly less CKap's legs. Again, I'm not mad at you for not seeing this, I'm sad. I'm sad because you're optimism is infectious.

 

Hartline's efficiency numbers have never been poor, they've been pretty high throughout his career. He also didn't have Brandon Marshall getting an inordinate number of targets. Hartline's numbers throughout his career represent opportunity more than anything else. Either way, I don't think anyone would dispute that Tannehill is much better than Chad Henne, so I'm not sure I see a point.

But there doesn't need to be gymnastics trying to contextualize his performance. I think its a bit silly for everyone to point out that these other QBs had better talent around them. Robert Griffin's defense was historically bad for a while. Andrew Luck's OL and RBs were bad. Ryan Tannehill had a better defense than Luck and Griffin.

Ryan Tannehill is a good QB IMO. Do I think he's as good as Luck, Griffin, or Wilson? No. Do I think he is a franchise QB? Yes. Do I think he's good enough to win a SB with? Yes. But the victim of circumstance argument is doing a disservice to everyone involved.

 

That skill doesn't exist.

 

I get all of that but I just don't view play making as an individual trait, especially among QBs. I'd love to see how Wilson, RG3, Luck, and CKap's play making ability would have been affected by playing with Hartline, Bess, Moore and Fasano. More importantly I wonder how RTs play making ability will be affected by his new teammates.

 

A players skills are entirely their own. A QBs ability doesn't change based on who his teammates are. The results may change, but not the actual ability of the individual.

 

...and having a lack of receiving talent around him.

He may not have had the stats the others did, but none of them were as handicapped with things beyond his control either. And never forget, he led almost all QBs rookie and vet, in accuracy under pressure.

 

We're talking QBs so team results will always bleed into individual assessments and so the consensus is that Luck, RG3, and Wilson are superior to RT. It's bull **** of course, but if Miami wins a bunch of games this year then RT will benefit from the same bias.

 

The only way I can explain it is with an extreme example.

If you, me and Lucky were Tannehills targets, there's virtually nothing he could do other than run. So when the play goes to ****, he has no option for throwing because the 3 of us suck as WRs. There's nothing he can do throwing the ball that will result in a positive play with us as the WRs. So, right there, lack of surrounding talent completely kills his ability to improvise passing. So now all he can do is run, but for a major part of the season, his knee was injured, plus the box is stacked anyway because we had no WRs that scared anyone. So that right there, shows there was less he could do to improvise with his feet.

Its why I'm flabbergasted you cannot see the things you're saying are QB only...just aren't. You take Luck, RGIII, CKap and Wilson, and tell me which of those played behind a worse pass protect line and had worse WRs, than Tannehill did.

 

OTOH Wilson scrambles, scrambles some more and then throws a prayer into the end zone that is intercepted for the winning TD vs Green Bay. That goes down as a last minute comeback. I guess he's "clutch" like that.

 

RT was as good as Luck over the final quarter of the season. And RG3 was injured by then as I worried he would be. The guy just has poor pocket awareness and it's just as bad when he runs. Wilson has great instincts, but IMO has a much lower ceiling as a pocket passer than RT.

 

You're still speaking in generalities and vague nebulous concepts.

No one is open, so you can't throw it. Your knee is injured and there's 8 in the box so you can't run it. What exactly can the QB do at that point DJ? You talk about playmaking ability, but there does come a time when there are no options and nothing for you to create from. You tell me what actual play do you have there?

And no, you didn't see Luck, RGIII, Wilson or CKap deal with the same things Tannehill had to deal with. They had receivers, they had better pass blocking oline, they had shorter fields because their defenses got TOs.

In spite of all that he's still one of the best QBs in the league (vet and rookies) at passing under pressure.

 

Tannehill was questionable coming in, facing the Colts' D after Pagano visited the team pregame.....and played a great game versus a D that was on high at home. And although Luck had a great game, he made two costly mistakes that should've lost his team the game - the Dansby drop and the Smith drop. Smith played one of the worst games I've ever watched in my entire life. I don't know the official stats but I think every big play happened against him. Had a chance to redeem himself on that final Colts drive, and failed immensely

I just don't think it's fair to say nobody could've beaten Luck this game. An injured Tannehill quarterbacked a game well enough to win; his vets are the ones who let him down (the exact opposite of what Luck's team did for him). If our coaches rewatched one game from last year, and this was it, I understand why Smith, Long, Dansby, Gaffney are all gone...and why we revamped the receiving corp.

 

Totally not his fault... You can't make a statement like "Individual playmaking ability at the Qb position does not need help to show..it comes out when when conflict arises and the talent around has failed."

... and NOT follow that up with a "Whoo-ah. Hah!!" in your best Lt Col Frank Slade voice...

 

I have bad memories of that Indy game for Tanny, honestly. He totally disappeared in the second half scoring only 3 points after dropping 17 on that sad Colts D in the first. People forget that we were in position to enter the playoff mix with a halftime lead against the Colts (both 4-3 records and our upcoming schedule was cake - we were in decent position to get to 7-3); but Tanny went cold as the Indy game got tight. That second half was the beginning of some pretty bad QB play: 3 points against Tennessee and 14 against Buffalo, both really horrible defenses and again, we were still in the playoff mix because of how bad the AFC was. Those 3 straight games made me doubt Tanny a little. Fortunately he turned it around against Seattle and got Buffalo back to finish strong - well, aside from being shut out week 17.

Rookie ups and downs last year, kind of a bummer given how easy our schedule was and how bad the AFC was. Feeling pretty good about this year for him, my concern is that he won't get consistent support from the run game.