I'd ask how the Democratic party is working out for everyone, but I'd have to ask China considering they own our ***...
Wow this is the type of guy we have running things in Florida: Will Weatherford @willweatherford 4 May Listening to Notorious BIG on the way home on pandora - "more money more problems" #session Is there a facepalm emote on this site?
Once again proving most politicians are just slimy-well educated-car salesmen that can't be trusted to do what's right, only trusted to do what gets them re-elected.
I think you're going a little harsh on ASOT here. He has a valid point. Yes, Stephen Ross would inherently profit when Miami-Dade profits but that's likely not why he wanted this deal. For instance, let me pose a hypothetical: would Mr Ross still have pursued this endeavor knowing only South Florida would be profiting from it, not himself? I highly doubt it. He didn't become a billionaire by being heavily charitable in the face of ignoring his own self interest. He's a business man, and this has always been about business. He didn't buy 50% of Huizenga's land surrounding the stadium for nothing. Stadium renovations that lead to Super Bowls lead to increased property value and potential development that he can further profit from. This deal was about South Fla profiting while Ross profits, not the other way around. After all, Miami-Dade wasn't the catalyst of this project.
Ross would be an idiot not to try and make a profit, but if he can help out Miami-Dade and himself its a win-win. Hes not only doing it to make a profit, but make a profit for Miami-Dade. It just happens to be that the deal also benefits him too
The whole thing was a scam. He basically lost approximately 10 million, 4 million to Miami Dade and the rest on other expenses campaigning for everyone to vote Yes. I honestly wouldn't put it past Ross to sell at this point.
His best financial option would be to get the renovations done and host SB50 while fielding a winning, exciting team; then sell high. That way he's profiting off his land holdings and getting some return on the stadium since it'll actually be used by the new owner. How much would Mr Ross lose going the other route (selling to an owner who plans to relocate) with his land holdings depreciating and a stadium that's unneeded b/c the new owner will have to build a new one? Basically the new owner would be buying the rights to an NFL team and its brand/logo, leaving Ross with a stadium worth pennies on the dollar and surrounding land that will never profit. What if prospective buyers want a name change & new logo like Cleveland did when becoming the Ravens? Then they're just buying the players & staff.
I gotta disagree here. It just so happens that the deal also benefits Miami-Dade too, not the other way around. Miami-Dade didn't come to Ross seeking a deal and asking for money that Mr Ross, too, would in turn profit from. He went to them, and he wouldn't have done it, especially the part about forking out millions from his own pocket, if the only profiter was Miami-Dade. The fact it's mutually beneficial for both parties is coincidental and an added bonus.
This is one reason I don't vote, politicians are nothing but scumbags. Rep and Dem can all kiss my a$$.
"Winning team" isn't a huge consideration in assessing the value. The majority of money is coming from TV contracts. That's a constant, win it lose. Winning would help, but winning in the NFL isn't an inherent value. A new owner isn't guaranteed to win, they can't buy that so they won't pay for it. Teams' value is based on their market, and their debt. Stephen Ross completing the renovations on his own would require putting the Dolphins at over a 50% debt level. Ross very likely would be violating NFL rules by leveraging the team that much. Not to mention that there is no way he would profit from $400M in renovations. You're suggesting that adding $800M in debt for a canopy and new seats would generate that much more revenue??? The Dolphins' gate receipts last year were $56M. They would likely be paying that much in interest alone on the debt they would be carrying. No, they're buying rights to 1/32 of the majority of revenue the NFL makes. They are guaranteed massive revenue, with an easy model for limiting their costs. They also have the benefit of skirting laws and regulations. Not to mention the new city would be giving them a $1B state of the art new stadium. And the new owner has no lease so they avoid the legal circus of moving.
I feel that since Ross owns the stadium, he should pay for the upgrades himself. If the county or state owned the stadium, my view might be different.
I'm not seeing an explanation for why the county should spend money they don't have, and collect it back over 30 years without interest, for the sake of a once a year event that might happen every four or five years. I'm also not seeing an explanation as to why Sun Life Stadium in its current configuration has been good enough to get the BCS championship game every fourth year as part of a rotation, and is also getting the game in 2014 now that the rotation is gone, but is inadequate for the Super Bowl. Ross never answered this question, in part because he never allowed it to be posed to him. The failure for this is squarely on Ross. He did not make the case, and yes, a case needed to be made.
Miami Dade would receive more than $289M in increased economic activity from Super Bowls and other events that wouldn't occur in the current stadium. The BCS is not nearly the same event as the Super Bowl. The people that go to BCS games are not nearly as affluent. The average income of SB attendees is $220K. Ross didn't need to make this case, because the county commission, and outside consultants did extensive research on the subject. Their estimates are $300M+ from each SB. I think that's high, but even if it is half that, they make their money back after two SBs. We aren't talking about $1B for a baseball stadium. This is $289M for the guarantee of SBs. Thats a tiny amount. If you're telling me the county is paying $600M, I'd probably say they will not see that back. $300M, at most, including all interest and overrun? That is a no brainer IMO.
South Florida had a huge windfall from the people who came into town for Alabama vs Notre Dame. We made a lot of money off that. A LOT of money off that. $289M is not a tiny amount for a county, especially since they will not see it back in full for 30 years. $289M is not tiny for anything, though government spending over the last five years certainly does dwarf $289M.
Bottom line, Ross proposed a solid deal with minimal risk, some idiot got in the way of us improving our team and our economic worth..we should be pissed off and back the guy. Lets hope this fanbase rallies and supports their young football team, and not go the other way.
Of course. It will be even bigger for the 50th SB. $289M certainly is dwarfed by the $2B in Marlins subsidies.
Since I really have no beef in this fight, it might be best if I not respond anymore on the Dolphins stadium issues. I just think Ross needs to pay for it himself if he wants the upgrades. I kind of think he now knows he made a mistake in buying the stadium too.
It's not a 289 million dollar lump sum payout from what I understand so there is nothing to "get back" really. The county also has protections against "off years" when the hotel tax revenue isn't on pace for what the Dolphins wanted. The agreement was that the Dolphins would have to come out of pocket and not the County/City. So you have 289 million which is roughly 10 million dollars from the county a year? So the county wouldn't have to wait to get their 289 million back because 1) The money isn't coming from general tax revenue and 2) the amount isn't a lump sump but a yearly payout from the hotel tax with protection against inability to pay the full yearly amount.
I think winning would pose an inherent value when paired with ownership of a significant amount of undeveloped property around the stadium. After all, Mr Ross is a real estate developer. I didn't suggest that he complete the renovations on his own. That's exactly what I meant. Right, and none of this benefits Stephen Ross who's left sitting on an empty stadium and lots of property. When Mr Ross purchased 95% of the franchise for $1.1 billion, was none of that for the stadium, all attached property, and 50% of the surrounding land involved in the deal?
What I found most interesting in this interview was that Dee stated that Ross had no idea of how bad the stadium conditions were at the time he agreed to pay over one billion dollars for the team and the stadium. Ross is in the business of buying properties. That is how he became a billionaire in the first place. He was also a minority owner of the Dolphins prior to becoming the teams majority owner. I find it absolutely absurd that a man who has made his money buying and selling property and was already a minority owner of the team didn't really know the actual condition of the stadium before he agreed to become the majority owner. I agree with many of the things Dee stated in his interview, but saying Ross was surprised by the actual condition of the stadium after he purchased the team and stadium, just doesn't make any sense at all. I believe Ross knew exactly what condition the stadium was in and he had hopes that taxpayers would be willing to help in funding renovations to the stadium from the day he became the majority owner. I have no problem with him asking for taxpayer help in renovating the stadium. Just please don't lie to me and tell me a man who makes his living buying and selling property, didn't do his due diligence in regards to the stadium, prior to agreeing to spend one point one billion dollars for the team and stadium. Shame on you Mr. Dee, for trying to convince the general public that Ross was too ignorant to know what the condition of the stadium was in when he paid all this money.
Owning it is not necessarily worth that much. It's a tax liability. Ideally the county owns it and the team gets it rent free.
I'll be there this season for every regular season home game, along with my wife, daughter, and son-in-law. You know my feelings about the stadium issue already. I don't mind the heat and I think the stadium is fine the way it is right now. Stadium issues are now irrelevant since there will be no vote this year. We can revisit this issue at a later date, but for now, let's fill the stadium this year and show this team that we are behind them. I have no wild expectations for this coming season, but I do feel this can be the best team this organization has put on the field since 2008. They may not be a playoff ready team yet, but they should be an exciting team to watch on both sides of the ball and on special teams. In fact I wish the season started next weekend. This is the first time I have been excited about a Dolphin team in the last five years.
Doubtful. There will certainly be more hype around SB50, especially if it's between two large markets (let's say 49ers vs Texans). SB50 would generate additional revenue on top of that generated by the 2014 BCS title game. Would it generate a standalone number higher than the 2014 BCS title game? Based on what happened in the week leading up to the 2013 game, I'm not sure. And that uncertainty is part of the problem, as those in favor of state-funded renovations (referring primarily to Ross, Dee, and their lobbying firm) never made a clear case. They just said "you want Super Bowls? Give us money." Frankly, they could have just delayed plans for a year and gone back to the Florida legislature next session and tried again with a better lobbying plan, but they've now burned that bridge with their temper tantrums. The next owner will have to try again, because Ross and Dee do not sound like people who care to give this another shot. Very true, and the $2B is another reason why the $289M is not available to spend. This is not the bottom line at all. Ross proposed a deal in which he gets an interest free loan through increased taxes, which he never has to pay back (the next 2-3 owners of the Dolphins would be saddled with the bulk of the repayments). He never made a compelling case for the use of money beyond vague promises of bidding for future Super Bowls (which Miami is going to do anyway), did not address the BCS elephant in the room, and killed any future chance of getting money by blasting the Florida House. This might be a bigger public screw-up than the Harbaugh interview and subsequent Sparano contract extension.
Now you see why Ross is so pissed at Speaker Weatherford, he just caused him to blow $ 10 million on really nothing.
This guy from Tampa could care less about SoFlo .... He needs to be blasted. But, the reality is, he is a rep. from Tampa. What does he care about the Miami area people. He obviously doesn't. And, he doesn't care. Unfortunately, this is not political process. That actually works only when there is a degree of ethical & honorable behavior (not just legal, but genuinely honorable). The guy in Tampa acted dishonorably. Period. I think that within 5-7 years (unless the legislature changes its tune), the Dolphins will be sold and Los Angeles will have a new team. No team will continue to operate with the worst or next to worst stadium in the NFL when the disparity is that far from the teams above them (Oakland, maybe San Diego - but theirs is not quite as bad). And, why should the guy running the legislature from Tampa care? He's probably not long for this system anyway.
lol. There is no way Ross could personally secure financing to pour $350M into Sun Life Stadium without putting most of his investments at risk. Maybe he can find an MLS team to split the bill but I doubt it.
Uncertainty? They made every concession the Mayor asked for. What more could be done? This is the greatest deal a city has received in recent memory.
