Report: Dolphins stadium deal looks dead

Please be advised that a lot of the people who hate FedEx field are people that are pissed the stadium left DC. There is a lot of politics concerning the Washington Redskins and the citizens of DC are pissed that the Redskins neither train or play in Washington DC...most of it being their own fault.

As for a mile walk....it's a mile. Walk it or buy a parking pass. I've made the walk a few times and its not that bad. If its super prohibitive...catch a cab. It's not cakewalk getting to Stadium Armory on gameday either unless you are on Metrorail. And RFK is a freaking relic. I was there for the Military Bowl about 2 years ago. Felt like gladiators were about to come out.

 

Deal would likely have to change somewhat after Ross already lost 4-5 million dollars on this particular deal I would think. Since we won't get SBs in until 2018 at the soonest...some of the numbers will also likely have to be tweaked.

 

Well why don't we examine this issue......

In 2001 Miami was 8th in attendance, in 2002 9th, in 2003 9th, in 2004 9th, in 2005 8th, and for some reason ESPN doesn't show numbers for 2006-2007, then in 2008 (following a 1-15 season) they were still 20th, 2009 19th, 2010 16th, 2011 28th, 2012 29th.

Don't you see a correlation between winning and losing and what the attendance is ? Jax doesn't traditionally have higher attendance than Miami - never has and never will - unless the losing keeps happening. Many have tried to tell the arrogant blind homers here for the last 3-4 years that many of the old timer Dolphin fans have been completely turned off by the way the team is being run. Seasons with a single win, seasons with 1 win at home, a stretch of losing what was it 13 games in a row at home ? It just piled up on home fans and many of them just said "to hell with them, Ross, Jeff Ireland and bad coaching and a miserable home game experience. We'll go back if and when they start winning".

You can either accept this, or continue to keep sticking your heads in the sand and refuse to accept reality. Fans like us that come here are on a different level than most fans, be it here in Miami or any other team. We who make the effort to post at a message board and make this a part of our every day, are much more emotionally involved than the average fan. To an extent I can understand why some here that can't grasp that not everyone is as gung-ho about the Dolphins as they are.

And if you look at things realistically and with an open mind, you will agree that Miami & South Florida in general have a unique and dissimilar set of circumstances not experienced in any other venue in the NFL. Many of those things make you either love living in South Fla or hate it (as we have seen from some of the posts).

That very reason is why you can't use other cities and their fandom as a gauge against South Fla. It's just simply unfair.

Throughout their history, Dolphin fans have been some of the most loyal to their team, but not to their city. You see the numbers on this board make it quite evident. I would truthfully guesstimate that more people who post on this board live outside of South Fla than live here, or its pretty close to even on that. That is a personal choice and one that I cannot quiver with anyone about, where they choose to live. However I do find it rather galling that some, who have never lived here, that want to apply standards that they see or believe they see from other places to here, and think they have a complete understanding of what South Fla is and is all about. They haven't a clue and won't unless they live here.

The old rule of, unless you walk a mile in another's shoes, don't pass judgement applies here.

 

I just want to check something.....DJ you do have season tickets, right ? For how many years ? You do live here right ?

I just want to fully understand where you are coming from.

 

So let me get this right, according to our friends who championed this....Ross was going to pay for 70% of this, but now because he can't get 30% (according to them) of the financing from the public, he isn't going to do anything at all ?

That's just plain ridiculous.......or it was a sham all the way. It just doesn't add up.

Why doesn't he just scale back some of the stuff, but to do nothing now.....it just doesn't make any sense. But he's the loser then, he gives himself no chance at those future events.

 

By the way, just as a side note, Speaker Weatherford is the older brother of Drew Weatherford that played for FSU 2004-2008 and former Tampa Bay Buc......not that doing something for the Bucs (as I previously mentioned) might be behind this.....

 

Well if they do, Ross will have a stadium he owns in full, with a tenant (U of Miami) that has a 20 year lease with him, and if he tries to sell it to them (good luck) they don't have the money, and if he kicks them out, hello lawsuit. If he sells the team, the next owner probably won't buy the stadium.....so Ross is kind of stuck.

So much for his acute business sense !

 

Not to mention the issues with obstructed view seats and selling expired food.

 

You are living in the past. People formerly supporting the Dolphins doesn't erase their debt. Selling out Sun Life isnt erasing their debt. Past fan loyalty doesn't mean anything. Jacksonville has given their team hundreds of millions of subsidies, like every other major city that is run well. This is another case of Miami-Dade stepping on their own feet. No wonder they suffer from the most drastic wealth inequality in the nation.

 

Boy if I am Weatherford, I would not be sitting easy. Dee tried to sound non-threatening, but that was a full frontal attack on the Speaker. Ross will fund any and every opponent the guy has, and Ross being a big Republican influence guy, will make sure those in the Party know his money is at stake if the Party backs Weatherford for higher statewide office.

 

In case you missed it, the county WAS WORKING WITH THE DOLPHINS TO GET THIS DONE. But you seem to not have heard it was killed by one man, and one man only.

And no way I want Miami-Dade County to just hand over hundreds of millions of dollars to Stephen Ross. Seriously are you asking the county to do that ?

And equating a social problem that has been endemic to the South Florida economy since the 1980's and Reganomics to not giving the Dolphins money is just beyond absurd.

 

I think Miami Dade should do everything within their power to create economic development. They don't need to hand over any money. They need to provide a stadium that isn't so poor the NFL rejects its SB bids. You keep making this about Stephen Ross and his wealth. Stephen Ross won't make much money from Super Bowls. 2/3 of the tickets go to the two teams playing. 1/3 goes to the league. The suites and boxes go to the league, who give them to sponsors. That money is distributed among the 32 teams.

You know who will make money from SBs? Miami-Dade business owners. The Playboy SB party has 1000 tickets. They go for $4000 a piece. That $4M in revenue from one party. The site that hosts the party gets about half that. That's $2M from one party alone. Now consider that Penthouse and Maxim have similar events. These are Miami-Dade businesses that are losing millions. Stephen Ross is getting his cut from the Super Bowl if its held in Miami or Toronto. The people of Miami are the ones that will continue to suffer from losing SBs.

 

Why is it ridiculous? Ross is under no contractual obligation to provide a venue for sporting events other than Dolphins and Hurricanes games. You seem to be implying that you believe Ross would profit from these external events. The group that owns Lucas Oil stadium would have lost about $1M for their SB if it wasn't for a tax credits.

http://www.ibj.com/cib-expects-to-lose-money-during-super-bowl/PARAMS/article/31969

 

Miami-Dade simply doesn't have the money to do that, and can't fix what they have done wrong in the past. So until the economic politics that are played in this county and country change its going to be the same.

Ross either has to overcome that or sell to someone who can or is willing to do it. Until then he could spend the amount he had pledged already. And he does benefit from a SB being played in a stadium that he owns. He gets nice cuts from all the concessions and a rent payment from the NFL.

So here we are, what is it you propose the county do to get this done ? Where do the cuts come from and whose taxes are you going to raise in order to get Ross the money you say he needs ?

 

Well then lets get down to the REAL REASON for this whole proposal.....because if its not going to make Ross money why is he doing it. I know why, and have all along, but it seems that you do too, just go ahead and say it.......

And don't give me any BS story about Ross just wants to do a favor for South Fla, that my friend is ludicrous. Ross does not spend hundreds of millions just be a good citizen.

 

Let me help you out on that if you don't get it, but I think you do........

This is all about making Sun Life Stadium a more valuable asset when it come the time in a few years for him to sell the team & stadium to the next sucker.

End of story. They fooled maybe some of you however.

 

Which is the point of the new Hotel Tax......it's not coming from the general tax revenue.

 

Miami Dolphins pay property taxes on the stadium...if it increases in value...so does the property tax.

 

And so ?

This is all about Ross overpaying and making sure he at least doesn't get completely suckered when its time to sell. He overpayed by about $ 300 million I believe, and realizes his mistake and now wants to make that up on the back of a new tax. If its paid by tourists who cares but Ross needs to have that stadium done, or he stands to lose hundreds of millions in the next 3-5 years. Because I don't see him as owner longer than that. That's another reason (among the many) I believe there has been such a push to get us on the winning side of things. He wants to win before his door of ownership closes, and also a winning team is more valuable than a losing franchise. There is a number of different motivations to get this stadium done, and the franchise on the winning track and most of them all come down to the almighty $.

 

Stephen Ross did not overpay for the Dolphins. The team has no lease, which makes them a very desirable franchise.

 

I know winning will bring fans to the stadium, that's never been my point, been saying it for years, it's a very poor venue in terms of the teams mentality and emotion, and has had a major impact on the reputation and the deteriotion of the culture, so yes, I don't like the fan experience as it relates to creating an advantage for the team, even when the stadium was full, it was poor, and sometimes pathetic, which Imo, can affect outcomes of games.

As far as looking elsewhere?? Ur silly.

 

I don't expect that to happen. To be honest, it could be a blessing in disguise. If it passed Tallahassee and got shot down locally it would have been devastating. At least now the two sides can feel like they did everything they could and were thwarted by the man.

 

That's a good point..

 

Lets not forget how nice it would have been if they moved the stands closer to the field.


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Hating the experience of the stadium an the team itself is entirely different. There is no denying that the stadium upgrades would have benefited the fans who attended the games. Yes Ross benefits because he makes more money, but it's a business, he needs to make money. If his making money also benefit the fans, what's the problem?


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I look at it as a 30 year lifecycle. It's time for the stadium to be refurbished or rebuilt. That's the facts. Wayne Huiezenga was looking at the same renovations. Now Ross. The next owner will too. It's time for a new stadium. I get that you guys watch a lot of Scandal and NCIS...but all of these fancy motivations make for great bed time stories. South Florida has a choice...they can help build/renovation a stadium now or they can do it later. Taking a hardline and not offering help runs the risk of a different owner taking the team to a town that will. Simple as that. Yeah...Ross is trying to increase the value of the team...yeah...he's the owner of the team....he's not here for a science project. He's a billionaire for a reason.

 

added is the key word JT.

 

This benefits the Dolphins, the fans, and most importantly the people of Miami-Dade. The business community overwhelmingly supported this.

 

This whole thing stinks to high heaven.

The NFL invented a sham of an excuse for not awarding the city of Miami any more Super Bowls so that the Dolphins would have the necessary leverage to ask for public funding on stadium upgrades.

Now that the public funding option is off the table, we're going to see just how much of a sham that weather excuse really was.

 

yup, somethin is shady..

Article just posted..

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/06/door-not-completely-closed-on-miami-super-bowls/

"That remains the biggest disconnect, in our view. It’s fine to drop the Super Bowl experience into Manhattan in the dead of winter, and to charge fans four figures to freeze while watching the game, but it’s no longer acceptable to spend a full week in Miami with the remote possibility that it will rain for four hours on Sunday night?

The problem for the league is that, if the owners relent and award additional Super Bowls to South Florida, the not-so-subtle “upgrade or else” mandate will come off as hollow. But by removing Miami from the rotation, the league necessarily won’t have as much leverage to squeeze every last penny out of the other potential Super Bowl locations.

 

That weather excuse has never, ever passed the smell test. It always had to be a different reason. And if it wasn't a design aimed at getting Miami some publicly-funded upgrades, then it's something personal/political.

 

Yes I absolutely expect that. They'll forego Super Bowls in Miami in the next couple of awardings just to save face but they'll begin awarding them back to Miami shortly after IMO.

 

There is a lot more to it than weather.

This is a competition. The better other stadiums get, the less competitive Miami's is. They are considering the totality, and while that does include weather, it includes a lot of other things as well.

 

I just don't see it, especially with so many new stadiums being built.

 

I guess I don't understand how the fact that the NFL is awarding the SB to non-sunny and non-dome stadiums mean Miami would still be in the running for a SB.

The main advantage we've always had is weather, now that that doesn't matter anymore, it seems it comes down to nicer stadiums.

 

That isn't Miami's main advantage. It's a secondary bullet point.

Miami's main advantage is that, as a huge year round tourist destination, the city and the region of South Florida have the infrastructure necessary to support the events surrounding the Super Bowl. There's plenty of lodging, convention halls, open areas, parks, multiple highways for transportation, athletic facilities for the teams, etc.

That's Miami's main advantage. Other cities have to pull infrastructure out of their rear ends to support the Super Bowl. For Miami, it's a slightly busier week... and yes, it's a sunny week.

 

I imagine the fact that Miami is a common tourist destination period also helps. Not just the infrastructure but the attractions of certain parts of the city in general.

Not sure people would find themselves going to Indianapolis for any reason other than the Super Bowl (or business, family).