Report: Dolphins stadium deal looks dead

Ross has a personal net worth of over four billion dollars. He owns the stadium the Dolphins play in at this time. I really don't think the NFL could stop him if he wanted to use his own money to finance the renovations of HIS privately owned stadium. If Ross doesn't want to pay for the renovations himself and he isn't satisfied with the amount of money he is making owning the Dolphins, he can either move the team to another city, sell the team, or just accept that he isn't going to make money owning the Dolphins until they become a winning franchise again.

It's really as simple as that.

 

As a long time season ticket holder myself, you and I feel exactly the same regarding renovations to the stadium. I only spend a few hours in the stadium 13-14 times a year, (I'm also a Hurricane season ticket holder), and I have no problem at all with the stadium the way it is right now.

 

And it's really only 2-3 games tops that are really sweltering. By the time you get to October it's not that bad, and damn is it gorgeous in November and December.

 

I am 62 years old and I have been sitting in the hot sun for over 40 years watching Dolphin and Hurricane games. Watching football in comfort was never my priority when I decided years ago to go to games instead
of watching them on TV. If it was all about comfort, I would just stay at home and watch the games on TV.

South Florida is hot and humid during the early part of the season. If the players can play in all that gear with the sun baking down on them. There is absolutely no reason fans can't sit in the stands in there shorts and tee shirts with constant access to liquids and enjoy the game. Some fans are just completely spoiled and want to use the hot sun to explain why they don't want to go to the stadium. Perhaps you missed the fact that South Florida is a tropical climate when you decided to live here.

 

Having a net-worth of $4B does not mean he actually has $4B. $1B of that $4B is in the Dolphins, 40% of which is debt. No way would Stephen Ross have near the liquidity required to finance $400M worth of renovations. Its shocking that people believe an individual could take out a $400M loan on his own. Such financing is almost always given to enterprises. Enterprises that are highly profitable.

The winning has very little to do with the Dolphins financial issues. Filling up the stadium is going to give them an extra $10M per season. To put that amount in perspective, they currently pay $20M per season in interest alone on the loan Huizenga took out to renovate the stadium. The Dolphins financial problems stem from the fact that the NFL's business model relies on taxpayer subsidies for stadiums, and the Dolphins currently reside in a market that has never provided such subsidies.

The likely outcome here if the team doesn't receive taxpayer funding is that the team will be sold to someone who will threaten to move the team. There will be a number of years of discussions and negotiations to move the team. At some point, Miami will get desperate enough, and they'll likely finance a brand new stadium. They'll end up spending $2B, of which they'll only see a fraction back as increased economic activity. Typical backwards South Florida politics. Miami-Dade gives $2B to the Marlins, and won't even give $200M to the Dolphins. Smart crowd.

 

You are right, by the middle of October, it really isn't that hot in the stadium. There is no better place to play a football game then the outdoors in November and December than Miami. So basically as you stated, this whole idea of partial covering of the stadium is really only about a couple of games at the beginning of the season. It just isn't worth the cost, as far as I am concerned.

 

On the subject of the economic impact of Super Bowls, I came across this research from Price Waterhouse:

http://www.pwc.com/us/en/press-releases/2013/pwc-super-bowl-press-release.jhtml

 

Ross seemed to have had no problem coming up with the one billion dollars he needed to purchase the team and the stadium from Huizega a few years ago.

Also, since when did it becomes the NFL's business model that taxpayers have to subsidize the building of football stadiums? I guess Joe Robbie never got that memo, since he built the entire stadium without taxpayer support.

If Ross can't afford to keep the team, he should sell it or move it. I want to see the Dolphins stay in Miami but based on the numbers you are stating, it appears Ross couldn't make money owning the Dolphins, even if every game was a sellout. I find this hard to believe, but if it is true, it makes you wonder why Ross purchased the Dolphins in the first place. I've always heard he is a brilliant businessman. Paying a billion dollars for a team which can't even break even financially if every game sells out, makes you wonder how brilliant he really is.

 

Jw...spot on brother...I sat in that hot sun from 1969 until 1999 when I moved out of SFL...I sat there in the OB and JRS...It's the product on the field that keeps butts in the seats...The last 12 yrs, the product has been lacking and the butts as well. Weather never plays a part in it for fans to come see their team win...but it does play a part for fans to come see their team lose...

There are somewhere around 7 million people in the general SFL area, more than enough to fill the stadium for the right product... That has always been my complaint with Ross, that he was trying too hard to 'increase the experience' instead of the product on the field. In his defense, his hands are somewhat tied with the product on the field. He's not cheap and spends on salaries at or above league averages. We've been spurned by some FAs, but not because of money.

It's time the SFL area government catches up to rest of the US in supporting it's team. BTW, I lived in Philly when the plans for Vet stadium were being bandied about and the owner didn't pay for that stadium...at all (Mr. Brahman, yeah, I'm talking to you).... If Don Shula hadn't gotten the job of HC, that team would have been gone a long time ago (again, the product on the field kept them afloat)...the local government has NEVER supported the Fins...

 

What does this mean? Because he bought an NFL team he has unlimited liquidity?

Since almost every single team in the NFL is receiving taxpayer subsidies, except Miami. I'm not sure what Joe Robbie has to do with anything now? He's been dead for over 20 years, and the NFL is much different than it was when he was an owner.

Do the math. Their gate receipts last season were $56M. They filled up 80% of the stadium.

Stephen Ross is a brilliant businessman, because he's found ways to partner with local governments. His motto is literally "if it makes sense for the city, it makes sense for business". When Stephen Ross bought the team, he had no idea that Miami would give $2B to the Marlins, then regret it two years later, to the magnitude that they would turn down such a favorable deal.

 

By all means, feel free to provide some evidence that supports these theories.

Either way, by your own admission, hotel rates are increasing. How does that work?

 

Spring break February 3rd? Where?

 

The county didn't turn anything down. The legislature has. Still doesn't make it a great deal, but the county did what you asked.

 

No, the county could today vote to give the Miami Dolphins subsidies. It has to go to the legislature because of the way the county wants to fund the subsidy.

 

Somehow Tom Ricketts can afford $500 million to renovate Wrigley Field with the city of Chicago and state chipping in some infrastructure improvements and tax breaks, yet Ross is a pauper apparently.

 

This x 100.

A failure to properly assess the situation with the Marlins is now being compounded by a failure to properly assess the situation with the Dolphins. Any locality turning down this type of deal is doing a disservice to its residents. The worst part is that Miami will likely never get the opportunity to get such a favorable deal.

 

Yes, Ricketts team makes $30M+ per season. And they don't even win. Their entire existence is based upon them losing, and people still show up!

 

Yes, and the reason they want to use the bed tax subsidy is that's the only possible way such a boondoggle could be sold. Apparently you have no problem with general funds being used for such things, but most people do.

 

By all means please show me a local goverment that does not provide business subsidies. You call it a boondoggle, most people call it an investment. Most people do not have a problem with general funds being used. I haven't heard any complaints about general funds being used on AAA. The Marlins are getting $2,000,000,000.00 from Miami's general fund. Funny how people didn't really care about it until the Marlins traded away their stars? If the Marlins were in first place, would people care about their subsidy?

 

Since he will continue to own 100% of the stadium, I'm not sure how this equates to a partnership with the city. He is the person who will benefit the most from these renovations. If he does decide to sell the team in a few years, the team would be much more valuable because of these renovations which would mostly being paid for will a tax increase on hotels in Miami-Dade County.

I don't want to see the Dolphins leave South Florida, but I just don't buy all the promises made in an effort to get this tax increase. I don't believe the SB has a huge financial impact in South Florida. I don't believe the stadium needs a covering and as far as the promise to pay back a large percentage of the money in 30 years. Ross will be dead, as will most of the politicians he is making this promise to. I don't believe any of this money will ever be paid back.

In thirty years a new stadium would probably have already been built and the idea of the Dolphins paying back a debt on a stadium no longer standing would merely be swept under the rug.

I'm just not sure why owners of professional franchises are granted taxpayer support to build their stadiums or arenas. It really doesn't make any sense, but as long as politicians and some influential backers are pushing for this money, it appears most cities eventually give in to their blackmail of giving them the money or risk losing the team to another city who is willing to be blackmailed.

Perhaps it is time cities and the taxpayers stand up and refuse to give into these rich owners and the leagues themselves. I am sure the politicians in South Florida wish they had let the Marlins leave town and never given them a single dollar of tax payer money for their new stadium.

 

This is nonsense. Most refferendums on stadium proposals fail, which is why the etams try to avoid them.

Nobody was for the Marlins deal. And in fact, the comissioners who voted for it were thrown out of office long before Reyes and crew were traded.

And I'm sure there was opposition to the AAA at the time, but I was too young to care. But I do know that even an 18 year old me realized how stupid and wasteful it was for TWO arenas to be built in two separate cities for hockey and basketball.

 

This may seem OT but it seems like modern legislatures should sit year-round. This isn't 1792 when things happened slowly over months, and ships and horses were how word travelled, and once winter came you didn't go anywhere for months. This is the modern, Internet driven, 24/7, fast paced world.

Normal jobs FAR less important than the decisions the government makes have people showing up every day. Running the country, state and city in which people live deserves at least the importance and commitment level of a 7-11 who makes slurpees.

 

If people want to show up for a losing team in Chicago, that's on them. It just won't ever happen in South Florida. If you want fans to show up at your games, you have to win in South Florida. The Dolphins have been a pretty consistent losing team for the past decade and that is the problem with the lack of fan support. It is not the stadium or the fact it is hot and their is no covering.

If they start winning and making the the playoffs, it will be surprising how much fan interest will increase and the hot weather will no longer be an issue at the stadium. This is the fan base in South Florida and hopefully Ross will soon realize this.

 

This is not a logical business model. Profits of NFL teams don't correlate very well with winning. The Dallas Cowboys are the most valuable team in the league, but they haven't won in the past decade. The Cincinatti Bengals make a lot of money, but they don't play in a full stadium. Winning and making money shouldn't be conflated.

 

They were thrown out after they voted for it.

 

Actually I would prefer they only met for one month every two years. The more time they spend in Tallahassee, the worst it gets for the people who elected them. Politicians only answer to their largest contributors and not to the public. So why would anyone want them to spend more time giving financial benefits to their own special interest groups?

 

If people want to show up for a losing team in Chicago, that's on them. It just won't ever happen in South Florida. If you want fans to show up at your games, you have to win in South Florida. The Dolphins have been a pretty consistent losing team for the past decade and that is the problem with the lack of fan support. It is not the stadium or the fact it is hot and their is no covering.

If they start winning and making the the playoffs, it will be surprising how much fan interest will increase and the hot weather will no longer be an issue at the stadium. This is the fan base in South Florida and hopefully Ross will soon realize this.

 

Right, exactly.

There was nothing the people could do about it beforehand since there was no referendum.

 

No, there was plenty they could do.

 

Ross isn't selling the renovations on the idea he is losing money and cannot keep the team here and competetive without them. Becuase nobody would buy it.

That's why he is playing the Benefactor to Miami's Pip, benevolently granting us this wonderful gift.

 

Like what, exactly?

Braman sued and tried to stop it but that ultimately failed.

 

The exact same way they got them out of office? Recall vote being the most obvious.

 

I'm sorry but people were not against getting the Marlins a new stadium. However people were certainly upset at the monumental debacle of a deal our dear politicians were able to negotiate on behalf of their constituency, hence their promptly dismissal afterwards.

 

Theres nothing to buy. The Dolphins turned over their books. The county and outside consultants vetted them. The number don't lie.

 

So is Ross here to bring a winning team, or is he here to make a lot of money? If he wants to make a lot of money, I guess according to you he should just cut payroll to a minimum and maybe 30,000 fans will show up to games. But at least he would be making money.

The fact is that the vast majority of the citizens of South Florida could care less about the Miami Dolphins. This is not only reflected in the small crowds at games, but also the fact that the Dolphins had the lowest TV ratings for any NFL team in their home market during the 2013 season.

I don't think fans care if the owner is making a lot of money or is losing money. All the fans in South Florida care about is their team winning games.

When Ross purchased the Dolphins, he said he wanted to bring the area a winning team. He has failed to do this so far. Perhaps this will change and when it does, fans will start showing up in mass at the stadium.
If all he really cares about is making lots of money owning the Dolphins, he probably purchased the wrong football team.

You can't compare the Cowboys to the Dolphins. There are two completely type of fan bases in these areas. Cowboy fans have shown during the years that they will support their team no matter what. That isn't the case in South Florida and you just have to accept it.

If it is all about money for Ross, perhaps he would be better off moving the team to another city. I would hate to see him do this, but if a man worth four billion dollars is worried about losing a few million dollars a year by owning the Miami Dolphins, this isn't the right area for him to have his team.

 

Ross is losing money ? He may have cooked the books to show the Dolphins franchise is losing money (the way Huizenga & Loria have done the Marlins - then we find out they were actually raking in tens of millions a year).

Ross can get a personal credit line loan.