Whoa now - Kobe fans are much worse. And Raptors fans. But yeah - there is a vocal group that makes the rest of us look bad. If you're involved with that 'scene' at all I'm sure you saw the great Dion Waiters debate with @HPBasketball from January/Febraury. As for the game - Shaun Livingston and Luke Walton were driving and trying to throw jump passes on every possession. I mean, the Heat are amazing, but Ray Allen had 5 steals last night. For as smart and intelligent as the Cavs started the game, they played equally sloppy and stupid in the 2nd half. The Cavs had to rely on Wayne Ellington and CJ Miles isolation plays at the end to try to tie/win. Like I said - I called at halftime that the Heat were going to come back and win, the Cavs without Kyrie, Andy, or Dion have no one they can count on.
I think it would be Pop's greatest troll ever if he rested the Spurs' starters vs the Heat as they went from the streak.
I can't speak for most of that (I don't follow anyone on twitter who is a cavs fan, other than Kyrie if you count him), and was 8 when Marino blew his achilles (I didn't see the game), but I would imagine many Browns fans are Buckeye fans. And I got to see first hand a bowling alley full of buckeye fans cheer when McGahee's knee was blown out, and it made me sick.
I was in a local bar here in Cbus, and not one of the 150 people there cheered for that injury. I think everyone was too busy cringing. Not calling you a liar, I believe you...just that sports fans in northern Ohio from The Buckeyes too the Indians seem to be just pathetic. Fact is Toledo, Cleveland are just depressed cities...not my opinion it's a fact. How did you make it out of there alive?
Toledo is near where I grew up, and no joke is it depressing. The University is great though. I made it out because I wasn't born in Ohio.
Funny - I'm pretty involved in the Tribe/Cavs communities and when someone comes along tht is obviously under-informed and overly assertive the response is always 'Go back to the Browns forum'. Browns fans are the worst. Those are the types that say most of the LeBron stuff. They just want something to give them attention, like drunk high school kids.
Only a year, I went in '02-'03 instead of my SR year of HS. I'm a Zip, class of '08. My brother's a Rocket. It's true either way. You may have known, but I was in Toledo when it happened.
The context of this great. Pop going with the hack-a-shaq 5 seconds into a brand new season. Love it.
I wouldn't want Saban back. Ever. I also don't agree that what Lebron did compares to Saban. Lebron was a FA and most everybody understood he would explore the market. The stuff he said was what every FA says about wanting to stay with their current team. Saban was under contract and lied after he knew he was leaving. And just for good measure berated the the reporter for even suggesting he might be doing exactly what he was doing.
Not wanting LeBron back on the Cavs would be an insane position to take. As for the sour grapes - he didn't just leave town after making those comments, he let the Cavs fire their head coach and then waited till nearly every FA had signed somewhere, leaving them with no way to shed players / make moves for the future. It's easy to say that's his choice to do when you didn't have to sit through the 26 game losing streak that happened that following season. As for Saban - the Phins were 6-10 the year before he left. The Cavs won 66 and 61 games in the 2 years before LeBron left. They hardly have the same impact or were in similar situations.
I think part of the hard feelings for Cavs fans is also that LeBron held FA over their heads for 7 years. He constantly played up the rumors and fed the beast. He used it before his first extension, which is why the Cavs went into 'win-now' mode and signed his good friend Larry Hughes to a franchise straight-jacket type contract. Miami fans had Wade willing to sit back and play with mediocre teams to let the Super Team happen - the Cavs didn't have that choice. So the Cavs made all of these moves that compromised the future to win in the present - because otherwise they thought they'd lose LeBron. Then they win 66 and 61 games and LeBron bolts - leaving the Cavs with an awful roster and no future. It felt a lot like he kinda forced them to make all of these moves, and then bolted for greener pastures when those moves didn't work out. That's hard to stomach as a fan.
The Cavs let LeBron down, not the other way around. He wanted better players around him, the Cavs didn't do that. The Cavs had the exact same opportunities the Heat had to secure special talent, and they didn't do it. He didn't hold FA over the Cavs head for money or playing time or any other thing athletes get blasted for, he wanted the Cavs to do their job while he was doing his. That's not ridiculous or wrong of him. I guarantee, if LeBron had a choice between staying in Cleveland and having Wade & Bosh or going to Miami with Wade & Bosh, he'd have stayed in Cleveland without a second thought. If they had a clear plan, LeBron would have waited like Wade did. The simple fact of the matter is that Miami moved heaven and Earth to get LeBron, and the Cavs didn't even move a lamp. Or I'm wrong about all of that. I'm bored.
The Cav's job was to try and assemble the best team possible. They didn't do a good job of it. That's not on Lebron. When FA came he looked at what they did and went someplace he believed could do a better job of assembling a team. That's not something he held over Cleveland. That's just what any FA with options does.
So you're saying the Cavs swore to never give him up, never let him down, or tell a lie and dessert Lebron. But they did let him down. Then the Heat proceeded to not waste a single day to move heaven and earth to be together forever with Lebron.
So what you saying is that Cavs told LeBron they'll never make him cry, say goodbye or tell a lie and hurt him?
I understand your point - but if the Cavs had spent the 2-3 years before his FA shedding contracts and losing games, would you be sitting here saying they did the smart thing? The Cavs had the space to bring on a max deal when he left - they just couldn't convince anyone to come there. And they were winning 60+ games a season and making the only real moves available. You don't get big-name FA in Cleveland. Redd turned them down. Ray Allen turned them down. They traded for Mo Williams and gave up nothing. They traded for Ben Wallace and gave up nothing. Same with Antawn Jamison. They brought in Shaq. When you're Cleveland and you have LeBron James - you don't waste 2-3 years of his career trying to set yourself up for free agency. That'd be worse than the Larry Hughes contract.
This is right. it really is as simple as that. The Miami Heat probably has the best organization in sports, with a deep pocket owner. A great combination. Cavs for a while were keystone cops trying to build a supporting cast around Bron. They never really had a plan. From Day 1, in Miami, they built a style and a team and knew the type of player they wanted to surround Bron with. Then Miami sells itself.
I think this is the part where no one sees my point. You need to step out of the sun and realize Cleveland doesn't get free agents. Name the biggest FA signing for ANY Cleveland team in the last 10 years. Ray Allen turned them down. Michael Redd turned them down. Reports were that they had a trade for Bosh the summer of '09 but Bosh refused to re-sign in Cleveland. If you're Cleveland and you have LeBron James you do exactly what we did - surround him with the best roles players you can and hope you can make some decent trades - because you aren't getting discounted FA and you aren't keeping LeBron on a losing team. It's easy to knock the team in the abstract - but tell me what moves they missed on?
The straw that broke the camels back. When they refused to part with JJ Hickson for an Amare Stoudemire one year rental (maybe he resigns, and Bron stays, if they win?)
That rumor has been discounted many, many times - even by Steve Kerr - who was the Suns' GM at the time.
So you're saying Cleveland was never going to be able to build a great team around Lebron and his choice was go to place where he has a better chance to win or most likely never win?
He was on back-to-back 60 win teams and almost always a title favorite. So let's not over-exaggerate those Cavs teams. Just because there were no other stars doesn't mean the team wasn't built well around him. And I'm saying part of the frustration with LeBron leaving was that he never allowed them to build for the future. They always had to build for the right now - both because they were on a clock with how long they had LeBron and because he made sure they knew that clock was ticking as often as he possibly could. So they made the best moves they could make considering that. Those teams turned out to be pretty damn good, but didn't allow them to build much for the future. So part of the frustration with LeBron leaving - specifically way late in the FA game - was that we were left with a giant mess that he helped create, but then he jumped ship in the most ******* way possible and left us with the mess. I mean, the argument you guys are making is that they should've tanked while LeBron was there instead of winning 60 games and going deep in the playoffs every year. THEY HAD ROOM FOR TWO MAX DEALS WHEN HE LEFT. It didn't make him stay.
No-one is saying they should have tanked....you can't tank with Lebron it's impossible to do honestly. However they could have built more efficiently. Looking back every season was like a mad scramble for them amassing limited short-term talent to try and win as much as possible. For example....they signed Shaq but he was done by that point. Ben Wallace wasn't the "missing piece" to any championship at that point either. Also if those teams were so well built...why were they a disaster zone as soon as one player left? Doesn't that signify bad building? I'm not saying I know what they missed on or what they should have done...but in hindsight what they did certainly wasn't the correct route to take. Even if it was the right route and there was nothing else to be done...then what is all this talk of Lebron back to Cleveland? Why would he want to be somewhere it's nearly impossible to win? On that note...do you guys expect Irving to bolt?
This is exactly right, they did everything THEY could too build around Lebron. But you can't make players play in Cleveland, OH. Also IMO, Lebron who at the time didnt resond very well to critics and pressure was just done in Cleveland. You could see it in the playoffs that year. Not to mention the dude had to deal with his **** mother actually screwing on of his teammates. Dude wanted a change of scenery and I don't blame him.
"Hi Lebron, I'm Jeff Ireland and I'm the general manager of the Miami Dolphins. Love what you're doing for the city...just one quick question. Lebron is your mom a whore?" 24 going on 25 games in a row and I feel like we're playing like crap almost nightly lately. Crazy.
