If Philbin's trying to replicate the GB offense, where are the YAC gonna come from?

Ideally Matthews takes the next step in his development and they trust him as much as Gibson and maybe Bess. If that is the case I could see the Dolphins having 5 active WRs on game days with them finally being able to use multiple receiver sets and rotating them the way they want to.

 

Tavon Austin

 

I think Fin D hit the nail on the head in another thread. We're concerned because the Gibson signing may diminish our GM's interest in drafting a WR. I think we're still trying to convince ourselves we need another WR with some explosiveness. Not only could adding another big-time WR help make our offense more dynamic, it would be nice to have some insurance in case Wallace gets hurt. In which case, we're back to last year.

Which is why I'm all about adding 1 more WR. Whether it's a big draftee or a 2nd or 3rd round selection, I think it's the smart thing to do.

 

I think its lame sticking Packers Offense on Philbin and expecting him to replicate and clone the Phins Offense as the Packers. Personally I'd like to think we will have a better running game. I hope we are more balanced.

 

I still think Bess could fill in for Welker in NE and produce. Fact is, we don't construct our offense to get Bess the ball the way NE does. We didn't do it for Welker either. Why not try to upgrade Bess's position on the team with a superior athlete? Someone who can contribute more than he's capable of? I like the guy too, but I think we've seen the best he has to offer. And what he offers, is very replaceable.

 

I finally just watched the video of all of Gibson's targets in the other thread and I see a guy that should not have the issues he does with YAC. Here's what I said about it in that thread:

 

He's not.

Hartline is the guy that should move to the slot.

 

Not necessarily, not if the plan is to draft Austin and drop Bess.... b/c that would leave us with Wallace, Hartline, and Austin starting and Matthews & Gibson in rotation. It's a quality corps, one that I wouldn't call "overdoing it" by any stretch. There's one playmaker in the group as it sits; nothing wrong with making it two. That's still not as good as Green Bay had with Nelson, Jennings, Cobb, Jones, and Driver BTW.

 

And how is it not exciting for Fins fans? When is the last time out WR unit scored 15 receiving TD?

Spoiler

2005

 

Maybe not but Hartline is very hard to stop in open space from getting open. His college career was in the slot and it's very hard to stop a guy from getting deep in the slot if he has great route running and decent deep speed. Safeties have to account for Hartline, Keller, and Wallace coming at them rather than having the CB play physical against Hartline on the outside.

 

Don't sell out man. Patterson brings just as much versatility. Austin is 0.08 seconds faster but Patterson can go a foot higher.

 

Chambers had 11/15. We went 9-7 and missed the playoffs. So there's that...

I'm curious though, what was the lowest amount of TD's a WR corps had who made the playoffs in the last decade? Genuinely curious, not trying to make any statement with that question.

 

Personally I dont think we're done adding playmakers. I think we're diverting attention away from two players that I know Jeff Ireland has personally scouted...Stedman Bailey and Terrence Williams. Id bet AT LEAST 1 is a Dolphin on draft day.

 

I'd say it's more like Ryan Swope is a Dolphin. He knows the offense and can contribute faster. BFF with Tannehill. And Sherman didn't one better than scout him, he coached him. Still would love Bailey, but I think Swope makes more sense than any other WR for those reasons.

 

hey Matt, what would make you think it's Bailey and not Austin? I just don't see a GM spending 3 of only a handful of scouting trips on a potential 3rd rounder. That seems counterproductive to me.

 

Well it would almost have to be at 12 because i get the feeling the Vikings are gonna be high on Austin. They have two 1st rd picks to play with.

 

More importantly, where in the hell are we going to find a QB that plays like Rodgers?

 

I think that's exactly right. It's all about spacing the field. We had a team last year that couldn't attack the whole field and allowed defenses to compact down w/o penalty. I think the plan is to spread the D out and make them cover the whole field. And I fully expect that Austin is very high on our list of targets as he would thrive in that.

 

That offense would be downright scary with Austin given space underneath. There would be so many ways you could use him. The thought of having that type of offense is really exciting.

 

I need to calm down?

From the guy who simply cannot help but ***** about the same thing over and over and over in every post, is telling me to calm down?

You do understand I didn't do that to say they will get that exact number? I'm merely trying to get you to understand that this group is made up of individuals who are capable of achieving something you don't think they are.

And if I can't use their separate totals, then no one can use any numbers from anything to try and project any result.

 

Exactly, I get the feeling Philbin isnt trying to get the Dolphins to play like the Packers per se, but to play like the Dolphins and the talent that is there, so comparing Thill/Rogers, Jennings/Wallace ect. is pointless. Play to your players strengths instead of trying to fit who you have into the mold of someone else.

 

We could say the same thing about every positon on the field. We discuss things based on where they are today, where they are headed, and you're right that it makes sense to include the draft in that discussion. But then let's talk about how the draft plays into this, not suspend all discussions until after the draft. Otherwise, we would need to suspend discussions til after we see how they do in mini camps, or after the season to see if it works before discussing it, etc.

It's all speculation anyways, is what I'm saying.

I think the OP is saying that the way things are looking, he can;t see where the YAC are going to come from. It sounds like you are saying they will probably do some more in the draft. Are you thinking Tavon Austin? that would certainly help. Though I don't think we will take him at 12.

 

[HR][/HR]

That's interesting because for a long time those two, specifically, were the only two receivers I wanted i this draft.

I've actually cooled a bit on Terrance since seeing some stats that make me think he can't play well in our system.

Stedman is my #1, #2 and #3 choice at WR for the versatility, RAC, TD production, ability to combat CBs for tough catches, jockey for position, avoid giving up body position so he prevents INTS, competitiveness and aggression, and VALUE. you don;t have to spend a 12th overall on him, despite all these great traits.

The dude is absolutely my 2a pick.

 

Seriously. Imagine an offense with Wallace-Austin-Hartline at WR, Miller in the backfield, and Keller able to flex wide without warning.

What defense do you field? If you field a dime defense, then we run all over you. If you field a nickel, then Keller is matched up on a LB and will get open.

Do you play man coverage? Not on Wallace and Austin you can't. So that means zone, but we could pick you apart with quick throws in a zone, or go trips bunch to one side and slaughter your zone with an overload, giving Miller or Austin a little screen with Wallace, Hartline and Keller in front of them blocking two DBs... just not fair.

It's a Defensive Co-ordinator's nightmare. That's why, despite me thinking Austin is a MASSIVE reach at 12th, I'd be fine with the Phins trading (up or down) into the 20-25 range and selecting Austin.

 

I'm not a Swope fan, if only because I noticed in TAMU games that Ryan would be so determined to get it to Swope that he would overlook other open receivers. That's bad football, leaves TDs and yards on the field.

I don;t want the QB's pet receiver coming here.

Let Ryan learn to find the open guy, with guys he forms new trust with.. equally across all receivers.

(He better not force the ball to Hartline next year on comeback after comeback while Wallace is open deep)

 

I like Robert Woods even more so than him. I feel like his speed is underrated and he's going to be a big time player in the slot for some team. I think it's time to move on from Bess in the slot even if it means putting Rishard Matthews or Hartline in there simply to bring a constant speed element onto the football field. Matthews with his 4.5 speed would be a great guy to have in there.

There's an idea out there that the slot WR has to be in the Welker/Bess/Amendola mode (slow, quick) and that simply isn't true. If you have a guy with exceptional speed in the slot, you don't have the boundary to help you cover him deep as a CB. That's frightening.

 

Your still not reaching it's potential or capitalizing on what it could do unless you have Tyler Eifert.

 

We're assuming that they want to copy G.B.'s offense in the first place. It's very possible that they go with 2 TEs throughout the year and use those guys as their slot WRs. Baltimore was very successful this year with a very classic run,run, to setup the pass formula because they've got deep speed WRs, athletic TEs, and a running game behind a strong line. No reason Miami can't have that.

You would think that if Miami were so insistent on a true spread approach they wouldn't try to resign Jake Long. I quite frankly don't think they're set on anything. They'd like to have three quality WRs, two quality TEs, and probably another RB in their stable.

Is Tannehill even all that successful out of 4 WR sets that we're talking about them like they're a done deal.

 

I don't recall many 4 WR sets. How often did we even have 3 decent WRs let alone 4, so we could run 4 WR sets with Tannehill?

 

Even teams that use 4 WR sets hardly use them enough to justify four guaranteed contracts at the position. It just becomes predictable running those formations. Compare to having two quality TEs, 3 solid WRs, and a stable of RBs with a strong line and specialty players (speedster as the 4th/5th WR, a quick twitch RB, and a FB).

A TE makes more sense than a WR.

 

If Miami was just going to copy Green Bay's offense, then Mike Wallace would have never been signed. That alone should tell you that things may look similar but will definitely be different from the Green Bay offense.

IMO, what Mike Sherman and Joe Philbin are trying to achieve is multiplicity. They want an offense that is voluminous in the sense that they can utilize multiple formations and personnel packages for a particular concept/play.

 

Exactly. They'd like to play matchup ball and attack opposing team's weaknesses each and every week. Wallace-Hartline-Bess-Gibson gives them a solid WR combo, they'd like another TE to be able to go with two guys there, and they'd like a bell cow RB as well.

Good teams (Baltimore, San Francisco) can do it all.

 

I'm curious as to what Brandon Gibson's contract actually looks like. If they are giving him a small bonus, then he's a guy who could be beaten out by a younger draft pick, IMO. When the details come out, I think we will know for sure whether the team is still interested in Tavon Austin.

To me, Tavon Austin is the ultimate match up guy in this draft.

The other thing to keep in mind is that in Green Bay, those receivers were groomed into that system. Donald Driver was drafted in 1999 when Sherman Lewis was the offensive coordinator. Mike Sherman took over in 2000 and brought in Tom Rossley, but he kept the same system in place, as he was an assistant in Green Bay under Mike Holmgren and went with Holmgren to Seattle as their offensive coordinator. Rossley came from Kansas City where they ran the Paul Hackett version of the WCO.

One of Mike McCarthy's mentors is Paul Hackett. When McCarthy took over for Sherman, he kept the offense in place but put his own twist on it.

Sherman then evolved what he did in Green Bay while at Texas A&M.

 

I think some of that has to do with the receivers that were on the roster last year. I know the game against San Francisco, they tried to run 4 and 5 receiver sets quite a bit just to get Aldon Smith out into the flats in coverage. You can YouTube that game; the whole thing is on there to re-watch. I think spreading other teams out was something that occurred more as the season wore on.