Official WWE/TNA Wrestling Thread

HBK is coming back next week to be on Jericho's Highlight Reel.

I doubt you'll see the WWE push new guys (especially on RAW) since they have the Triple H/Cena feud all summer long to bank on. Kennedy will get a push but I highly doubt he'll go over Triple H in a big match up. There's really no one else on RAW that will make an impact, I'd be shocked if they gave Hardy another chance so I bet he'll be hanging around the IC title ranks. The big problem with RAW and that there are no believeble heels left, I wonder if maybe Edge will get traded back to RAW during the draft (possibly a heel Batista) or maybe HBK or Triple H will turn.

 

Doubtful that Edge will as he is the top guy for smackdown, not unless they plan on swapping champions again and there is no way HHH goes to the "B" show for any length of time.

I agree about the heels and really think it is time for Cena and the WWE to embrace the boos for Cena and turn him, merchandise sales be damned. As a heel, he can do better business as people will pay and WATCH to see him get his *** beat. Umaga is also another guy who is a nautral heel and probably needs a manager to help transfer the heat to him. On his own, he gets the tweener treatment as people will naturally cheer for a believable bad *** who doesn't talk. The Goldberg effect, if you will. Get him a manager and have him destroy a diva or a fan favorite and you have your monster heel again.

Being a main eventer doesn't mean holding the championship belt. Not always anyways. Guys like Curt Hennig and Ted Dibiase were considered main eventers and never held the big title. Jeff Hardy, I figured would be put on the back burner, but right out of the gate he got a seemingly big fued blowoff win against Umaga and found himself essentially in the main event to become the number one contender.

The guy has arrived and is probably going to stay near or on top of the card for awhile. Same goes for Kennedy. I think he may be better as a face though as his act was stale as a heel really quickly. We'll see though.

Regal was getting heel heat that was DESTROYING anything anyone else has done in a LONG time, but he went and screwed it up for himself so who knows where he will be when he gets back.

But for my money, the biggest travesty is Kane. The guys character, look and moveset SCREAMS heel, but they never seem to get it right after his initial push. He isn't believable and that stupid sinister laugh he does when he plays a heel is too over the top to buy into. I have a plan in my head that I think would give him huge heel heat and eventually turn him into an even bigger face and marketable star, but its pointless to go through as it will never happen.

 

The problem with Cena is is that he's basically slip 50/50 in terms of face pops and boos. The younger viewers and females LOVE Cena, while the older 18 to whatever age boos him. I'm not sure they'll turn him heel, I personally think Triple H should as he's better at it.

I agree with Edge not switching the only way he will is if they stop with the brand slips.

The problem with Umega and Regal is that no one will believe that they can win the title or beat the top face. Umega's shot was a few years ago when he debuted as a monster heel but since then he hasn't gotten a big win vs. a face in forever. They basically buried him with Hardy and I'd put a lot of money on him switching to Smackdown soon. Regal, who is probably the 3rd best wrestler on RAW (HBK and Jericho are the first) is in the same boat with Hardy in terms of suspensions plus I don't think people buy him as anything above IC ranking.

Ah I don't know about Kane. I think he lost his importance back in 1999. Losing the mask killed his character and they can't turn back now. If he shows up on RAW he'd get a nice big pop but I think he'd get stale quickly as his act is old.

Wow just typing this up, the WWE is in serious trouble with heels. Even if Orton was perfectly healthy he's still a weak opinion in my opinion. I think the WWE should move Batista to RAW and turn him heel and work towards a Cena/Batista WM main event as it's one of the few dream matches left right now. The back up plan I guess is to turn Jericho heel as he can work some good matches with both Cena and Triple H.

The WWE is in serious trouble, they absolutely need to build new characters and stars. I think it might be time to have John Morrison and push him to the moon or turn CM Punk heel and use his straight face stuff to get boos thinking he's better than everyone else. I could see Punk showing up and running down Hardy for his drug use etc (although I'm not sure the WWE wants to give Hardy's drug use more press than it already has).

 

Funny thing is, I actually have my own idea with Kane. It also involves a huge push for Matt Hardy as well.

It starts with Kane having a match, but then he gets jumped by La Familia. Next episode, Edge gets on the mic and speaks about his match at One Night Stand, and about how he did what many people thought he wouldn't do: Banish The Undertaker. He then explains that La Familia attacked Kane because they want to rid the WWE "of every last remnant of The Undertaker, including his brother Kane, and they won't stop until they achieve that goal.

So they get into a feud where each wrestler ones up one another by attacking each other after matches. Then Edge costs Kane the ECW Championship to Chavo Guerrero during an episode of ECW. Or rather, a PPV. Later on during that PPV, he appeares on top of the ramp whil Edge is defending his title against (insert wrestler here), distracting him long enough so he loses his title.

They keep on fighting back and forth until Kane cuts a promo in the background about how despite their ups and downs, The Undertaker "was still my brother. Not only did Edge and La Familia manipulated the rules so they could take what rightfully his, you banished him, so I can never ever see him again. So for that Edge, I'm going to make sure you never ever see the Championship again. You want to rid the WWE of the Undertaker? I have news for you: You're going to feel remnant of him yet again. You and I will face each other in a casket match!"

So at the next major PPV, he takes on Edge, but he narrowly loses. Then Edge, making good on his proclamation, so he and La Familia locks the casket, wheels him out to the parking lot and set the casket aflame. On the next episode of Smackdown, Edge announces that Kane is in a coma and has been put in a burn unit. So they gloat, takeover Smackdown (ala McMahon-Hemsley era). They plan a La Familia night a month later early in the episode. Throughout the episode, however, each member gets jumped. Edge walks in the back to find Vickie as the foot of a stairway, lying on her side, and her wheelchair upsdie, looking as if she was pushed down the stairs. Then Curt finds Zack plunged through the window of a car. He turns around and yells "NO WAY" before the camera cuts to black. Chavo Guerrero then has a match against Kofi Kingston for the ECW Championship. He looks as if he is about to win, with interference from Bam Nealy, until the lights go out. The lights cut back on to see Nealy, Kingston and Chavo knocked out, with Kofi on top of Chavo for the pin.

During the last fifteen minutes, Edge demands the attacker to show himself. He gets his wish as the lights go out again. But then the arena fills with red light as flames surround the arena. Kane, clad in his Attitude Era attire, iconic mask included, walks and stands at the top of the arena.

Just a thought.

 

Well, the reason Cena gets face pops from the girls and younger crowd now is because he panders to them. If he comes out and acknowledges the boos, tells him he doesn't care because he hates all of them anyway and is in it for the money/fame/ etc. The younger crowd will turn on him in an instant and he will be looking at probably close to 80% heel heat, if not more. Cena can play a good heel, they just refuse to let him. HHH turning heel does nothing for me. He is the definition of a tweener at this point. His character is so steeped in both heeldom and faceness (new words?) that he is pretty much the same guy regardless. He is fine as he is now. Just a tough guy who doesn't care one way or the other.

Umaga has taken a step back, but that is why they would have to put an emphasis back on him. He is STILL a believable heel and a strong worker, especially for a big man. He has a good character which I thought was going to be a bad Kamala impression. In fact, he has completely invested himself into the character and people believe in it. In many ways, he has what I call, the Kane juju. Meaning he is always someone you can call on for a legit big man tough opponent and have it be believable. If you stick Umaga with a mouthpiece (Estrada was perfect) and have him kill some women and sympathetic characters dead (King and JR come to mind), people will be all over him again. It really wouldn't be too hard to build him back up to his previous monster heel status. I also would be willing to bet money Umaga goes to Smackdown.

As for Regal, I think we will have to disagree. While I agree that he is one of the best wrestlers, I also happen to think he was well on his way to finally getting the ball and running with it. They made him the King of the Ring and his role as commish was really working well. Go back and listen to the hatred the fans had for him the past month he was on. It was unreal. Heck listen to the reaction when Kennedy beat him. It was a reaction pop to Regal losing, not Kennedy winning. That is a mark of a strong heel. It is just too bad that they had to waste it so early on due to Regal screwing up. Can you imagine if they had built him up for a few mor emonths and had someone like HHH/Michaels/Jericho beat him? It would have been unbelievable.

I actually think that ou CAN go backwards with Kane. I agree he was much more effective with his mask on and there are ways to get back to that point. Silverphin already has an idea that would work and within current storylines as well. Mine is a little bit more contrived and would take some manuvering with a wrestler not currently on the roster (either Jake the Snake or Raven), but it can be done and it would be better for everyone.

Jericho is great as a heel, but he has so much charisma and natural smarmyness that anyone with a sense of humor will end up cheering him again. I actually like his character as it is now. He seems to be this confused version of himself which is interesting to me. He has been spot on in the ring recently too. He has undoubtedly been the best PERFORMER in the ring over the past couple of months, with Michaels being a close second. Orton sucks, plain and simple. Orton was at his best when he first came up and did those RNN updates and was kind of this sarcastic aloof heel. His current character and workrate is subpar.

I agree that they need to do something, but I think Punk as a face works for now, same with Kingston. Morrison needs to be pulled up and drop Miz like a bad habit. I would like to see Elijah Burke get a chance as well as I think he is very talented as a wrestler and manager type.

 

I like this for a couple of reasons.

A: It gets Kane back into a mask which is where he was best served

B: because it is believable and easy enough to do within current storylines and

C: it might motivate Kane to drop a couple of lbs as his beer gut has gotten way out of control recently.

 

I liked the Kane idea however I think Kane's time is over with and he's just a jobber to the next big thing at this point of his career.

 

Its hard to call a guy a jobber when he is holding a version of the world title (even though I don't consider it as much). Do I think Kane will ever get his luster back? No.

Do I think he could if any effort was given? Absolutely. Instead, McMahon and co. are relying on gimmicks (like this million dollar thing) to help boost ratings which is insulting to say the least. The fact that they refuse to fix their problems and instead, are literally throwing money at it shows how uncreative, unoriginal and behind the times they truly are up there.

That and the fact that he is literally putting the Million Dollar Man's gimmick to use by trying to prove that people are money grubbing whores who will do anything for money (inlcuding watching his poop product) for the CHANCE to win money.

 

I understand your thoughts about Kane but every time a hot heel comes in, he has a feud with Kane and beats him. Everytime a hot face comes in he has a feud with Umega and wins. That's why I call them jobbers to the next big thing because they're always putting over guys over. I didn't mean to say that Kane was a Brooklin Brawler type but he's basically a big named jobber at this point of his career and has been for a few years now.

 

I would tend to agree with you, I just think that both of those guys still have the type of characters that, no matter what you do to them, they can always be built back up. And I think the industry term is Jobber To The Stars (or JTTS for short) when it comes to high profile guys who lose all the time.

Mick Foley is a great example of this. When was the last time Foley actually won a match? Granted he is retired for the most part now, but he always puts over the guys that he does wrestle, be it Orton, Edge or whomever. His credibility with the fans is so high that no matter how often he loses now, he won't be harmed by it. Kane and Umaga are to that point to a lesser extent.

 

Yeah I knew it was JTTS, I just wasn't sure if everyone else would. I think you could build up Umega, I just think Kane is a lost cause now. He's been in the WWE for almost 15 years (as Kane for 11). I think Kane is a guy that could show up on RAW or Smackdown and really pop the crowd the first time but after that he'd just get to stale.

Yeah Foley was pretty much a JTTS throughout his whole career. The problem with Foley is he could back it up on the mike and in the ring and the people just loved him and got behind. Because of that fans believed in him and even when he had no shot at winning, his matches were so good people went nuts for every near fall. That's a major difference between Foley and the Kanes and Umegas of the world. I bet you Foley could come back tomorrow and challenge Triple H or Edge to match and the fans would be going nuts throughout the whole match, while if Kane or Umega did that the fans would sit on their hands because they know they have no chance to beat Triple H or Edge, while Foley is someone they could believe might pull it off (think Ric Flair vs. Triple H in NC in 2003 for the world title on RAW).

 

Correct.

But that is why I say you have to build them back up. And it would be easy to do with either of those two guys since their characters were built around them being monsters. It is easy to get that mojo back. Its not like the 80's where if Hulk killed a mystique, they were done forever. Nowadays, people have such a short term memory (due to crash TV formats and such) that if you have Kane start pulverizing people tomorrow and for a period of time, they will almost forget about his JTTS status and buy into him again. It helps that he is a big dude who can still work when motivated.

It would be much harder to do that storyline with someone like say, Colin Delaney.

But again, WWE will not spend the time or effort to make bankable stars anymore. They follow a simple dumb formula and force certain people down our throats and thumb their noses at the response (or lack thereof) and when viewers are turned off, instead of fixing the problem, they come up with lame money giveaways tied into viewership.

 

Welcome back D-lo.

 

third weekend in a row, I have been watching Smackdown under thunderstorm warnings

 

i know it stormed like a MoFO in South Bend last friday... was up at my wife's 20 year reunion in Irishville.

 

Half the state is flooded, it sux. FYI Khali has been gone for so long due to filming on Get Smart. Looks like a hilarious movie. I love how WWE is ripping off the "Diva" belt idea from TNA. TNA should take that as a compliment. Means for once one of their ideas is working. All that talent on that roster and they still insist on pushing the same guys week after week, which in the long run will earn them the same fate as WCW. I dont like Deuce and Domino, at all. The gimmick is stale, and they arent that good. The main event was ok. Batista goes back to main event status with Taker out of the picture. I dont like the idea of pushing Show back onto ECW. I think they could really use him to help push Smackdown.

 

Raw was terrible last night. They held it about 40 minutes frommy house and I didn't even make an attempt to get tickets comped to me or anything. The only storyline I care about right now on Raw is Jericho-Michaels. They have done it right so far and I am excited to see where they go from here.

Kudos to the writing staff (more likely to Michaels and Jericho) for the nod to history. Jericho putting HBK through the TV was eerily reminiscent of HBK throwing Jannetty through the Barbershop set many years ago (little known fact, when HBK did that, he thought the glass was breakaway glass, but the set was never change, meaning Jannetty went throgh an actual window pane and messed himself up). I thought HBK should have bladed though as it would have made sense and been a better visual.

I actually have a thought on the Jericho-HBK fued and where they can go with it if HBK does need time off, but I will explain that later.

The only other storyline that I think has bee going well is the Kofi-Benjamin storylline from ECW. Just two guys who are fierce competitors and it is starting to spill over and get personal. Very simple, effective storyline.

 

I would have been p'd off if I had one 2 dollars.

 

Evan Bourne.... I don't know where he came from, but.... NICE!!

 

That is Matt Sydal I believe. He has been around for a little while. Young guy, like 25 or so.

 

I see. Him and Kofi make a great team. That hurrican-rana on Mike Knox? Sweet.

 

Is it just me or is Knox juicing? he has gotten twice as big as he was when he started ECW.

 

Knox was kind of implemented a while back by a guy who bought his house. Supposedly after he bought it, he found a shoebox filled with roids and prescription bottles in the crawlspace and it was linked to Mike Knox.

 

I have been impressed with ECW's talent recently. Kofi, Shelton, CM Punk, Bourne, Morrison and even Knox have really steppe dup and put on entertaining matches and a better overall show than anything else coming from WWE.

 

Dude's sick!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8ICltyDKDNg&feature=related

 

hopefully vince doesn't make him bulk up and loose the athleticism

 

He wants them to not get caught. Subtle, but HUGE difference.

 

Wow never heard of this kid but that youtube video is very impressive. Hopefully the WWE doesn't make him dumb down his moveset to work to their style. HAHAHA who am I kidding there's no way they're going to let him do that stuff. Too bad he could be a huge star if they do. Hopefully I'm wrong.

 

If they ever bring back the cruiserweight title, and if they actually build ECW to become the actual Extremely Championship Wrestling....

Yeah... I see what you mean.

Hear this: I saw a couple of matches on youtube. Matt Sydal had a lot of significant time in Dragon Gate, a Japanese promotion run by the great Ultimo Dragon.

 

Well they have tons of cruiserweight talent to bring back the title but McMahon would rather watch the Big Daddy V's of the world 'wrestle' instead. It really is too bad that they keep guys like Shelton down because he's not tall and jacked.

 

Anyone else pick up the Rock DVD that came out on Tuesday? I'm only a little ways through it, but so far ... so good ...

 

Here's more Sydal in Japan. THIS, is a great tag team match. Play them in the order of posting.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=BC9pWaCUC5c

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7R3NevYc6G0&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HrS0-O5OwN0&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xJfdqHkALUw&feature=related

 

Yeah I got my copy. I love The Rock so it was a no brainer getting it. I'm about half way done with disc 2. Very happy with it, although I wish it was more like the Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels' DVD where the first disc is a bio on The Rock's career and the other 2 discs are strictly matches. This DVD is just like Austin's and Rey Mysterio's which was just matches with brief intros. I'm sure they tried to get The Rock to sit down but I'm sure he's way too busy for that right now. I just like that format better and hope this new trend doesn't last.

My own complaints with the DVD is that there are a lot of great matches he had that isn't on the DVD. I understand that all of them can't be on it (like the great matches with Benoit but that's a different story and don't fault the WWE for that) but I don't understand how they can leave off the Iron Man match vs. Triple H on both Triple H's new DVD and now the Rock's. I wonder what they're waiting for. Also I can do without the random 5-10 minute RAW/Smackdown matches. They're mostly short, meaningless and kind of boring. I'd rather they just load it up with high quality PPV matches instead.

There are a lot of great Rock matches that is missing from this set so I'm sure in a few years another Rock DVD will be released (like how another Flair set is coming out now).

Overall if you like The Rock then this set is well worth it and is a must own.

With that being said I also recommend the Ladder Match DVD, HBK's DVD, Flairs, and Bret Hart's.

I'm hoping that the WWE will release a Macho Man and Chris Jericho DVD soon as well as another Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels DVD as there are still tons of matches not on DVD yet.

 

Don't hold your breath on Macho Man. Jericho is a possibility since they have his WCW and ECW tapes for matches, but I am not sure if he has had enough quality WWE matches to qualify a DVD yet. Some of his best matches were with Benoit and I don't think they are looking to sell anything having to do with Benoit if they can help it.

 

My copy of that DVD is on backorder from WWE.

 

You guys really order this stuff eh? I have yet to buy one DVD of wrestling. It seems odd to do that when you can find better quality matches on the internet for free, or even the matches on the DVDs for that matter.

 

I buy the old school stuff more then anything. I dont really get any of the new stuff too much. Huge Rock fan though. Plus I got a free elbow pad with my order!