I think we are better of going to a different position in the first and going for a wr in the 3rd. If we are spending that much money on WR we should also focus on other needs first in the draft
Even if it weren't an assumption, there isn't a single college player that doesn't need "work." Even Jadaveon Clowney needs work.
Austin can bench press 130% of his body weight 14 times. That is pretty insane upper body strength in my book.
If we take a safety at 2a, give me DJ Swearinger. He can cover as well as any safety and hits better than any of them. I love the anonymous scout's quote about him:
Yeah, he hits better.... when he actually makes contact b/c he'd rather go for a kill shot than actually tackle someone properly. He's also the leader of standing around watching others do the work. It'd be a fun drinking game to watch his Clemson game below and do shots every time he either gives up on a play, stands around acting as an observer, doesn't stick his nose into the pile while the ball carrier is still on his feet, gets flagged for taunting, or tries to throw a shoulder and whiffs rather than executing a proper wrap-up tackle. I don't like guys like that, myself. He looks like Antonio Cromartie at times, which isn't as tolerable when the player is a safety IMO. [video=youtube;OrA2CgHWDkQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrA2CgHWDkQ[/video]
I like that philosophy, we should have him dialed in if that's a position we want to improve on..looks like we're letting Clemons test the market so we'll see.. I'm all about the badger.
This is an, at best, misguided statement IMO. We're talking NFL caliber here. "Everything is relative" is the phrase I'm looking at here. We talk about guys who run 4.5x as "not having straight line speed" but in the real world that's ****ing fast as hell. Austin is an athlete and a strong dude. Anyone who can bench 225 14 times while weighing 173 lbs is a strong guy. But... Percy Harvin could do it 21 times at Florida, with a max of 450 lbs. Eddie Royal, at 5'10 185 lbs, did it 24 times at the combine. We're talking the NFL here. He's not strong in his upper body. I didn't try to make those comparisons, you guys did. He's no Percy Harvin in the strength department, period. Now, Im not saying its a sure thing that he won't be as productive or deadly as Percy, but if you're trying to sell a guy, don't use a dishonest comparison. They don't play a similar game, they aren't built similar in body, and they aren't really the same mentally (I hope, for Austin's sake). Just use other comparisons that are more accurate, or even
While I agree that Austin is not as powerful as Harvin and that represents a risk, I would also say that Patterson represents an even greater risk. Part of it is the hands, which are not consistent, but the other part is the question about intelligence/maturity. Super athletes, particularly at the WR position are available every year and most don't amount to anything. The reason, IMO is personality. At this level, most everybody is at least a very good athlete, if you don't have the desire and intelligence your athleticism is not enough. Reality is that Patterson was a fantastic athlete a few years ago too, but he wasn't intelligent or mature enough to go to a Div 1 school. The inconsistent hands and even the lack of polish could be evidence that he really hasn't matured enough to work on his craft. You see moments during the games where he does really stupid stuff. When someone wasn't intelligent or mature enough recently you would like to see more evidence of actual development. There's a reason so many JC transfers who flash one year fail so often. On the other hand, I believe but don't know for sure that Tenn uses a pretty complex passing offense. So maybe he has matured and is intelligent enough. If I were interviewing him and his coaches maybe I'd be pounding the table for him, but just based on what we know, he's a huge risk. A much greater risk than a player who's basically the same size as many others who are succeeding in today's more wide open, more regulated, less violent game.
You can call his intelligence into question, because that's a very legitimate concern, but calling into question his dedication to football is unfair. He improved throughout the year, he has coaches willing to go to bat for him, and he's been known as nothing short of a tremendous worker. How can you question that dedication? Yes, he had issues with school, that's fine. But are we really only open to drafting guys who stuck with a 4 year program no matter what? No JUCO players? You're using conjecture to support a conclusion. This isn't even an argument with you guys it seems. The conclusion has been made and there can be no movement, it seems. I'm seeing people pull concerns out of thin air, and confusing correlation with causation. And this is deceiving. I'd love to know which NFL players are considered among the "many others", because right now I'm not seeing many guys at the top WR list here that are 5'8 175 lbs. I'm seeing Wes Welker, a full inch and 10 lbs heavier. The closest size comparison you can make is DeSean Jackson, at 5'10 175 lbs. I'll give you the massive benefit of the doubt and say that he's succeeding on a consistent level in the NFL. Now, obviously those 2 inches mean that Austin is stockier... but I just don't see it. Those are the only two I can think of that you could consider succeeding in the NFL at anything resembling his size. For argument's sake, I kept it 5'10 and shorter, and 180 lbs or less. That's his size. He doesn't play his game like his size, or lack thereof, is anything but a negative. That's my take. Maybe it will matter, maybe it won't.
and how many 5'8 175 pound guys are there in the NFL with Austin's rare ability? .... so that's not a very fair statement for you to make. The closest size comparison isn't just DeSean Jackson, it's also Steve Smith (5'9 184) who doesn't have Austin's same level of speed, nor the same level of elusiveness & COD ability. Tavon is also stronger than Jackson BTW. Steve Smith's career: #21 all time receiving YPG (68.6) #23 all time career receiving yards (11,452) #27 all time receptions (772) #55 all time receiving TDs (63) only 1 season in 12 years where he missed more than 2 games. .... and at the age of 33 caught 73 passes, 1174 yards, 4 TD, and 8.5 yards per attempt. So realistically, there's only 2 players in the NFL with Tavon's size and similar rare ability, and both are impact players in the league.
Feb 26, 2013 – The Dolphins need a big-play wide receiver. ... Well, Patterson struggled to keep up academically at times. ... I would call my mom every day and ask her if she still thought I needed to do this and she said, 'Yeah, it's been your ... God gave it to me and I go out every day and practice hard at practice."
Tavon is a mix of Steve Smith and Santana Moss IMO, if anyone compares to him at all, and that's good enough for me to take at 12.
You picked probably his worst game of the season. The two plays that bothered me were the taunting and the late getting over the top on the TD pass to Hopkins. Usually he is good in coverage and I think that is his best quality.
No offense Philsational but this is a pretty piss poor showing of good faith and diverse argument. I'm not making the claim, so I don't have the burden of proof here. How many guys with his "special ability' feels like not only a logical fallacy but also a massive massive cop out. There are plenty of huge "playmakers" that are that size that can't hack it. Jeff Demps, Chris Rainey, Jacquizz Rodgers... all speedy as ****, elusive, shifty... with serious concerns of size.
Awwww.... that's nice. You found 3 running backs. Now how 'bout actually finding 4.3 forty RECEIVERS his size with elite elusiveness, elite stop-start ability, elite later speed & agility, elite balance & body control, elite vision & awareness, runs good routes, has good hands, shows good anticipation, and understands both the game and coverage. yeah, find me those guys who haven't succeeded in the NFL. For some reason you foolishly keep going back to Tavon's size as if that's the main caveat of it all, as if ability has nothing to do with NFL success. I guess since size is all you care about then Calvin Johnson should've been a bust considering 6'5 239 pound wide receivers rarely to never succeed in the NFL. BTW, Quizz Rodgers wasn't speedy as **** when he ran a 4.59.
Unless you've never followed the draft before, you understand that +90% of players will have coaches that say they're dedicated. It's in there own best interest to be able to tell recruits that they had players drafted highly. So those public statements mean next to nothing. All we can base it on is what the player shows on the field. The fact is that he is raw. You can hope he'll develop til the cows come home, but the fact is that he hasn't put in enough work yet. He may be the most dedicated guy in the world or he may be the kind that put in enough work one year to get paid (those are far more common). So with any player that you don't see the development yet, the risk is real. As for similar sized players to Austin, I think of Desean Jackson. IMO Austin is a more dynamic version who has been less of a headcase (none really). The only thing that has kept DJ from being a consistent great player is that personality (as I mentioned is a risk with many WRs). I think of guys like our own Mark Clayton, Sproles, Trindon Holliday. And i expect going forward the door will open more for the small quick WRs as the DBs can't touch them before the pass and they are limited in how they can hit them afterwards.
I'm saying his size is a limiting factor, yes. I am. Because it is. He hasn't demonstrated ONCE he can play the perimeter, which is something you saw DeSean Jackson do. You're adding traits to the guy as FACTS when in reality they are OPINION. I'll never for the life of me understand how you can just be so sure of yourself in every single discussion that you simply don't chalk up an arguable tangible skill set, such as route running and vision, as pure fact. If he was everything you're saying he is, then he'd be a surefire top 5 pick. I personally don't think he has it. I struggle to see this game breaking vision and speed translate well to the NFL. I think he's going to have an incredibly hard time adjusting to NFL CBs punishing him at the line, and I think if he stays a slot receiver only, he will quickly discover what the NFL is about when he's met by a linebacker or two on a slant pass gone awry. You're putting words in my mouth. Im not saying that size is the only thing that matters, but we are discussing one of my main problems with the guy as a player, and the discussion has been entirely on that. Just because we are focusing on that one key cog of the argument does not mean that is all there is.
There is very, very, very little basis for which to call Cordarrelle Patterson's work ethic into question. I'm not going to assume he has a great work ethic. But there's certainly no reason to assume he doesn't.
wrong. Try actually watching his games. BTW, what's this look like to you? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=uICLaJ93rpU#t=80s Is Tavon demonstrating he can play on the perimeter... orrrr does it only look like he's demonstrating he can play on the perimeter? It's a fact his route running is good.... and it's a fact his field vision is elite. If Austin's vision isn't elite then it's a fact that no one else's is. I can't believe you're arguing stuff that's like water is wet. Exactly, which is why there's a decent chance he's gone at #12 b/c a player of his smaller size doesn't go that high unless he has elite level ability. Say it with me now, E-LITE. If Tavon were 5 inches taller he'd be vying for a top 3 pick in the draft, so yes, I am talking about him as if he has surefire top 5 pick talent..... b/c he does. For some reason you can't separate talent from size.
We'll just agree to disagree on this entire subject. And side note - Im ****ing baffled by your last statement. If at this point if you're going to continue to say things like "Why aren't you able to separate talent from size" when I've demonstrated over the past 3 posts that size is not the only thing about Austin I do not like. Again, SIZE. IS. NOT. THE. ONLY. THING. I. DO. NOT. LIKE. ABOUT. AUSTIN. then I just don't know what to say anymore. Quick quiz: What do I dislike about Tavon Austin? A) Size B) Issues with transition from college to the NFL and his inability to muscle out of press coverage C) I just don't see his route running as that impeccable. D) All the above. The answer is D. Not A. D. I hope we can stop putting words in people's mouths from this point on. You love Austin as a prospect, I simply don't. I think there's zero question he's available @ #12, while you feel he might be snatched up. I disagree that your discussion of his traits are with regard to fact vs opinion. I don't think that should have to be explained, but if you want to feel differently, go right ahead. I'm through arguing that with you, just as I would walk away if someone tried to tell me it was a FACT that Godfather 1 is better than Godfather 2. The type of thing. I just don't see it, and that's why this is great. We can disagree. I respect your right to have that opinion, and I damn sure won't attack you, or it, without an actual basis or substance behind it. That's the joy.
"He said he has noticed a lot of interest from the Chiefs, Jaguars, Raiders, Dolphins and Seahawks. He also has a private meeting scheduled with the Browns. Richardson summarized it nicely." The smile spread wide across his face as he met the media after improving his 40-time to 4.81 seconds. He ran through all of the positional drills and was beaming with confidence throughout the afternoon. When posed with questions about his NFL future, Richardson wasn't short on things to say." Dolphins at Sheldon's proday.
Patterson can line up anywhere. he's just as versatile as Austin. this is one of the main reasons i didn't want to re-sign BH, fearing it would keep us from taking Patterson. this is 2010 all over again when we passed on Dez Bryant because we thought Hartline and Bess was enough firepower with Marshall. I mean why the hell should Brian ****ing Hartline keep you from getting what could potentially be the best offensive skill player in the entire draft? imagine teaming Wallace up with CP and Cook?!?! CP is big enough to be a redzone threat as well. hell Hartline could easily be cut next year after falling to the 3rd or 4th option in the passing game behind Wallace, Cook/another TE, and a rookie WR anyway lol.
