Per Marvez: Dolphins, Hartline Nearing Multi Year Agreement

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How can someone get open on double moves only??? A double move inherently requires a constraint????????

 

yea, we also thought we filled our need for a deep threat when we drafted Clyde Gates.

 

It's pretty standard West Coast Offense trope.

 

It is a core philosophy of any West Coast Offense. Mike Sherman has the same philosophy in his offense.

I'm sure Joe Philbin is just itching to move away from a timing based passing game to accommodate Mr. One Trick Pony though. It's OK if One Trick rounds off his routes on out breaking patterns, digs, and come backs. That timing aspect of the offense isn't important. What's important is that we overpay to get One Trick in Miami so we can have that speed at receiver.

 

i said get open deep.

 

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How can someone get open deep on double moves only??? A double move inherently requires a constraint????????

 

Everyone knows its a lot easier to pull off a double move than it is to pull off a single move.

 

Agreed, it's not appropriate. Boldin was already a proven player with the ability to score which is quite different than a 1 year player with a quarter of his production coming from 1 game.

When Miami adds a better receiving TE and appropriately upgrades the WR position to where Hartline isn't the default primary target, he won't outproduce Boldin (who has averaged 62 catches, 882 yards, 5 TD, and 14.2 YPC the past 3 years in Balt), nor make as many impact plays, some of which helped Baltimore win some big games, including this year's playoffs.

Boldin's 2013 Playoff stats

• 22 catches, 380 yards, 4 TDs
• Wildcard win vs Indy---- 5 catches, 145 yards, 1 TD. (including a 4th qtr, 18 yard TD to put the game out of reach)
• Divisional Round win vs Denver--- 6 catches, 71 yards. (2 catches for 36 yards late in the 4th quarter changed the field position by subsequently keeping Denver out of field goal range which allowed Baltimore to win it on their final drive)
• AFC Championship win vs NE---- 5 catches, 60 yards, 2 TD. (both TDs in the 4th quarter to break the game open)
• Superbowl--- 6 catches, 104 yards, 1 TD. (2 catches for 39 yards led to a 4th qtr FG and 8 point lead.... then a 15 yarder on 3rd & 1 late in the 4th directly led to a Balt FG and 34-29 lead)

Boldin 2012 Playoffs (2 games)

• 10 catches, 174 yards, 1 TD
• Divisional round-- 4 catches, 73 yards, 1 TD vs Houston in 20-13 win. (21 yarder to directly set up Balt FG and 10-3 lead.... a 10 yard TD to make it 17-3... then a 14 yarder late in the 4th directly puts Balt in FG range and 20-13 lead)
• AFC Champ game-- 6 catches, 101 yards. (37 yarder to the Pat's 18 to set up Balt's first TD.... then 4 catches for 60 yards on Balt's final drive to set up the game-tying FG that was missed)

Hartline isn't on Boldin's level (regardless of his 32 year age), never has been, nor has shown the ability to be IMO.

 

I'm not sure it gets you to the point where you pay Mike Wallace 11 million a year, or to the point I'd be confident in him being a good buy but I think there's a possibility he works too.

Does one guy running a predictable route tree hose your passing concepts over? It limits you, yes, but to what extent? I don't know that one guy renders you incapable of running an offense based on varied concepts, timing, and equitable distribution of targets. The idea that Mike Wallace can be very successful and productive on < 100 targets makes him a bit more palatable too. He doesn't have to be a valid receiving target on every play.

I think you'd also have to consider if the Dolphins shifted more towards a more Shanahan-style WCO that it doesn't help make Wallace more palatable either, where your play-action bootleg becomes a fairly significant part of the passing game and let Wallace buck the route tree elements for more stuff where speed/deep becomes more emphasized.

This is mostly devil's advocacy, but I think you might be a little hard line too.

 

Looks like we'll be drafting Tavon Austin and subsequently cutting Bess to get back some of that money.

 

You skip Matt Moore's TD run last year when he was handing them out like molly's at a rave (yes I'm exaggerating but when is the last time someone threw for a 26 TD pace). Everyone got in except Hartline.

Of course you did because it doesn't fit your narrative. He threw 15 TDs in 9 games. Hartline. 0. Hell Davone Bess got 3 of those.

 

what tipped you off, Pods? Perhaps the fact we don't have a starting one right now? Yep, you're a prophet. lol

 

I think Bess is worth at least a 4th round pick.

 

Hmmm. Bess goes to NE and we get Jennings hartline and Austin...I could live with that

 

I heard they will now be dividing the yardage on the catch by the number of moves, so if you catch a 50 yr pass but used a double move to do it, you only get a 25 yd gain.

 

The thing is, I think Wallace's personality will not make him be a great fit as a guy who can get less than 100 targets and be happy. He admitted this past season that he lost his focus when the ball wasn't coming to him, and that it effected him when he had to make a play.

 

If we use all this cap space to re-sign/overpay players from a mediocre to average performing team rather than taking advantage of an opportunity to alter the dynamics, I'll be quite disappointed, myself. If we cut Patterson & Carpenter we'll have about $34 million left to play with (after rookie contracts), so let's see how that turns out. I'm guessing Wallace will be here, which means Cordarrelle Patterson & Keenan Allen are likely out of 1st round consideration, and Ireland's time scouting WVU makes even more sense b/c Austin could be seen as the missing piece at WR.

 

No, he's an observer and you sir are an armchair GM.

 

what does that have to do with anything? He's had the ball in his hands 155 times the past 3 years.

..... and Cecil Shorts' had Henne & Gabbert as his QB but that didn't stop him from catching 7 TDs in 13 games.

Our offense does NOT make Hartline fall down easier than a 2 legged table,
nor get caught from behind before he reaches the goal line,
nor prevent him from catching 50-50 balls or fades in the EZ,
nor prevent him from breaking a tackle,
nor prevent him from juking or stiff-arming a defender in the open field.

This excuse-making for his lack of scoring is out of hand.

 

[video=youtube;HofoK_QQxGc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HofoK_QQxGc[/video]

 

Interesting the view that Hartline can't get open deep and so the need to sign a guy like Mike Wallace (which I wouldn't mind having on the team), yet looking at passes over 21 yards last year:

Wallace: 5 catches, 27 targets, 241 yards
Hartline: 10 catches, 24 targets, 400 yards

And who had the better QB throwing him the ball?

 

KC taking Bowe off the market definitely put more power in Hartline's corner <contract wise>.... and our balls have been in his hand from day 1 considering if he weren't re-signed we'd be entering FA with no starting receiver (as Bess certainly isn't a starter).

 

This signing guarantees more of the same.

Why would we want that, again? Someone remind me.

 

No it doesn't. There is still a lot of offseason to go.

For all we know the wide receivers next year are going to be

Wallace, Mathews, Hartline, Austin, Swope.

 

We should have let him take more elsewhere. I have a feeling that feelers were put out to Jennings agent, though, and the sense the Dolphins good (post Dwayne-Bowe contract) wa that Jennings wants more than we will pay to land him.

I have a bad bad feeling we are going to look at a second round draft pick as the only real addition to this WR corps. Or maybe a 2nd and a 3rd.

 

Those things are all Tannehill's fault.

 

It guarantees the same at THAT position on the roster, which is the only popsition this signing is affecting. Why stand pat at that spot with such woeful TD production out of it?

I don;t wanna hear a ****ing peep from the coaches or front office about wanting more scoring, or being more explosive with decisions like this.

 

If I send you the measurements of a woman's face can you tell me if she's good looking?

Trust your eyes, not the stats.

 

I look forward to more talking of scoring next year.

 

Most people would blame Ireland.

 

Have to hope he can pull down more Touchdowns. At least he is familiar with Tannehill and the locker room and such. Adding another WR like Jennings or Wallace would make fans pleased mostly I think.

 

The choice to resign him is probably:

1) Bowe set a high mark for Jennings and Wallace, so the Front Office probably unsure if they will be able to get them for the cheap amounts they are willing to offer... meaning they need Hartline back.
2) Security blanket for Tannehill. they like the chemistry. I mean, gaffeny, Armstrong came in and left because neither could either get the system down or mesh with Tannehill or something... so they wanted the certainty of Hartline. Good is the enemy of great agsain. We took the certainty of a decent receiver over risking a better one that could be worse here.

 

good point. The whole "Jennings wanting $12 million/year" was likely a dagger in any leverage we might've had with Hartline's dollar amount, especially after Bowe's hefty contract was inked. Some heavy overpaying so far this FA.

 

They've shown an interest in resigning him since last year. Before he had his good 2012 season and well before Bowe got richer.

 

RG and DE aren't needs. Lets get that out of the way now. Could we use a nickel pass rusher? Yes. But it's not a need.

We have needs at WR, TE, LT, CB, and FS. You're assumption about Patterson and Marshall are wrong. In their eyes, Marshall is a #2. Patterson is a #3.

So our needs at WR, TE, LT and CB, and FS with 25 million in cap space and 5 picks in the first 5 rounds is not bad. And I'm willing to bet we have more in cap space than that.

 

I would put another pass rusher at the top of the needs list along with WR/TE.

 

I like that.

We know Hart can't get away from players in space, but what if we could figure out some context as to what his production does mean to effective offensive football..it's a tough one for me as well for the point you made so bad assly.

I know that he had a rough offseason being Ill,couldn't train his body, had a complete new system to learn, no training camp, a rookie Qb, no weapons around him to take coverage off him, and had a pretty good season, it all adds up to a brilliant mind for the game, and someone who's ceiling is in his deceptiveness and intelligence thru route running.

 

Nice try Adam. How 'bout some real perspective, shall we.

Passes thrown 31+ yards
Wallace: 29 catches, 1518 yards, 17 TD
Hartline: 9 catches, 442 yards, 1 TD

Not. even. close
(and that 1 TD was from busted coverage... along with its 80 yards)

 

That's more want than need, IMO.

IMO, our needs are LT, TE, WR, CB and FS. If we bring back Smith and Clemons, than it's LT, TE WR, and CB with less money to spend.

 

Marshall may have been signed originally to replace Will Allen, but he was deemed suitable to be the #2 corner and replace Davis by the time Davis was traded. I believe in Ireland's mind, Marshall is a #2 corner. Patterson is a #3, nickel corner in his mind. They'll be here unless better #2 and #3 corners are acquired through free agency or the draft IMO.