It cames with years of practice, however right now Stinger is offering an 8 hour course, where you too can have an incredible opinion. It isn't $300, $200 or even $100. For just 4 payments of $19.99 you too can have an incredible opinion. If you act now, he will slash one of the payments and throw in a snuggie.
If you look at Mr.C's sig of Austin, he is not a skinny little kid. He looks very solid. I don't see the problem with his size. Mark Clayton........5'9 177 lbs Mark Duper..........5'9' 185 lbs Tavon Austin.......5'8 1/2" 174 lbs
I don't see anyone saying that Austin sucks. At least I'm not saying he sucks. I'm saying he is not worth the 12th pick in the first round and is also not a player that you make the focal point of your passing offense, not that that really matters much in the grand scheme of things considering that Joe Philbin doesn't make any receiver the focal point. As far as the Swope vs Austin thing, you made my point for me when you stated that Swope played outside more than Austin. Exactly!! Swope is a player that can play both in the slot, which he did a majority of the time at Texas A&M, but he can also play outside. It gives him position flexibility, and it makes him a great fit for the offense the Dolphins run. Swope is a slot plus guy much like Jordy Nelson coming out. Jordy played the slot about 40% of the time in 2010, and he's played more outside as time has passed by.
"with less weaknesses"? What weaknesses? "less of a question mark"? What question mark? You keep making these cursory statements w/o substance to support it? You're just making stuff up just to do so, that much seems apparent. You might as well just say "because I said so from now on" b/c that's basically what you're doing.
"much higher BMI"? That's a little extreme don't you think. He weighs 186 at 5'9, yet you make it seem like he's a 200+ guy. And Austin ran a sub 4.3. Let's put it this way- Jacoby Ford & Marquis Goodwin have comparably elite speed; Austin ran step for step with Goodwin. Are you really splitting hairs here?
I thought he dove into a tractor trailer the way he went down. I like Austin but not at 12, I don't like anyone else at 12 either. I think we can get a player just as good at 19-25 while grabbing an extra 2nd it 3rd rounder.
you don't think that quickness is confined spaces, agility, density of bone and musculature, intelligence, can reduce the risk of injury? I thought I mentioned this already in this thread...Austin hasn't missed a game in his high school or college career..that's not a coincidence imo, he might be the exception you are referring to.
Not sure what any of this matters, String. a) who cares if he'll be spending most of his time in the slot? That's the position that will likely see the most targets and touches. b) Have you polled every NFL team to see who does or doesn't have him as the #1 WR? c) the "consensus" also had Damontre Moore as a top 10 pick which I thought was a crock of crap well before his abysmal combine showing. d) the "consensus" had Tannehill as not worthy of a top 10 pick and Bruce Irvin not being a 1st rounder, which couldn't have been more wrong.
You did not hear about the new draft rule? Only outside WRs can be picked in the 1st. Slot receivers must be taken later. Good outside receivers are so much harder to find than good slot receivers like Welker. That's why so many teams have really good slot receivers of Welker's caliber.
The top "slot" receivers in 2012 based on yards per route run and where they were drafted: 1. Randall Cobb - 2nd round 2. Victor Cruz - UDFA 3. Wes Welker - UDFA 4. Jeremy Kerley - 5th round 5. Danny Amendola - UDFA 6. Santana Moss - 1st round 7. Davone Bess - UDFA 8. Justin Blackmon - 1st round 9. Marques Colston - 7th round 10. Reggie Wayne - 1st round 11. Jason Avant - 4th round 12. Brandon Stokley - 4th round 13. Brandon LaFell - 3rd round 14. Andrew Hawkins - UDFA 15. Anquan Boldin - 2nd round 16. Emmanuel Sanders - 3rd round 17. Miles Austin - UDFA 18. Dexter McCluster - 2nd round Of these, only two have the size that Tavon Austin has. Andrew Hawkins and Dexter McCluster. Would you use the 12th pick in the draft on either player?
....and how many of them have the natural ability level of Austin? The sooner you accept he's an elite talent at his position the less painful this'll all be. Sorry if I don't understand your reasoning behind putting a greater emphasis on a few players who are slightly better than average at their respective position over a playmaking slot receiver who should become among the game's best at his position.
Santana Moss was an inch taller and 7 lbs heavier when he was drafted. He's been very durable in his 12 seasons in the league. He was drafted 16th. To say he's any bigger than Austin is splitting hairs to the extreme. If Moss were a rookie this season, I'd take him 12th. As for Hawkins and McCluster, no I would not use the 12th pick on either. Not because of their size though. Because neither one is close to as talented as Austin.
Depends on F.A. and who we re-sign. I think Defensive end is the biggest need with the roster as it stands now. If we could improve our pass rush, it would improve the secondary a bit. CB is probably second. We don't have anyone to start opposite Smith (who we may not have in the near future). Then offensive line. Why do you ask?
.... and to add to that, if Victor Cruz could be had for 4 year/$10 million, what would teams give to acquire him? He'd easily be a top 10 pick IMO. For KB21, the reason Cruz wasn't drafted was b/c he's from UMass with a year's worth of prior production, not b/c he's a slot receiver.
EDIT: NVM, I dun goof'd reading the question. Team needs (in order) are: WR TE DE CB OL As of right now without roster turnover.
I disagree heavily with that. We have an All Pro rush end on one side and a 1st rounder in Odrick fitting Koyle's desire for a larger hybrid type end on the other side. The pass rush can be improved by adding an interior nickel rusher and a 2nd+ round situational pass rusher we can groom behind Wake. I disagree with corner & oline being a greater need than WR. We have Bess who's gone after this year, 7th round Matthews, undrafted Armon Binns, and some practice squad guys. We have a grand total of 1 touchdown among our receivers from 2012. Plus we have a #8 pick invested in QB who needs some weapons. How is WR not the most dire of needs?
Simple misunderstanding, Clark, but that's not what I actually asked. I wanted to know if people felt there's a greater need than offensive firepower. I agree with your list by the way, only I'd change DE to pass rush.
I just re-read it. My reading comprehension needs work, apparently. Sorry for the confusion. As for DE/PR. I think it's a pretty safe bet Randy Starks gets resigned. However, is Soliai going to be on the roster in 2014? If not, someone has to fill his shoes. And while Odrick may be a former 1st round pick, it was as a DE in a 3-4 scheme. I truly don't believe he's suited to play there in a 4-3 (even if he sheds weight). I would rather kick him inside to spell/nickle/dime packages and draft a DE. With the roster as is, my ideal draft would involve us trading down from 12 into the 20's, getting an extra second (like we did when we got Odrick). 1st- Tank Carradine - DE 2nd - WR 2nd - TE (Kelce) Then use our next three picks (one 2nd and two 3rd's)on WR, CB, OL (in any order). That's just me though. *Unless a big name drops to 12 and it's too good to pass up.
It certainly is when the defense isn't taking the ball away and putting the offense in a position to have easy scores. Thinking a 5'8", 170 lbs receiver is going to markedly improve Miami's ability to score points is the same thought process many of you had when you thought adding Brandon Marshall was going to make Miami have a Superbowl offense. It's not just the fact that you overrate the impact a wide receiver makes, but now you are overrating the impact a guy who has tremendous size limitations will have on the game, as if somehow he is the greatest 5'8", 170 lbs receiver of all time and is going to break the mold and redefine the position of wide receiver. And that somehow he is a better prospect than a player who is 4 inches taller, 25 lbs heavier, and just as fast as he is while also making more big plays in the passing game and scoring a higher percentage of his team's touchdowns.
"easy scores"? Don't you need guys who can actually score for that? This just comes back to your fallacy that wide receivers don't matter much. That's what this is mostly about.
How so? Your opinion is too black and white. There is a grey area in respect to WR's helping offenses become championship caliber. I think you're right in that WR's are overrated in terms of being able to uplift a mediocre offense. Without a QB, no great WR is worth very much. Case and point, Larry Fitzgerald. As great as he is, he's only as good as his QB. With Kurt Warner, he was all world, and contributed significantly to their SB run. In fact, almost had a game winning TD that wouldn't have been possible for 95%+ of the NFL's WR's. Since Kurt retired, he's not putting up elite statistics and not carrying the offense to a significant degree. I think our thought process as Dolphin fans was, as it is now, with a great WR (or many) the QB will produce more because of that talent. Talented WR's can open up the game for more than just himself and the QB. QB's will mature quicker and become greater than they could be otherwise. Case and point, Tom Brady. Tom Brady in 2006 had some pretty **** receivers. He played well (28td, 14INT). Did the best the could. But it was clear the lack of play makers was holding him (and the team) back. In 2007, NE loaded up with Welker and Moss. Tom Brady went on to produce one of the greatest single seasons a QB has ever had. Moss and Welker made NE a super bowl offense. Since then, NE has loaded up the offense for Brady who has continued putting up dazzling numbers. And NE will likely do so again this off-season. Phinsational- What's your opinion on Patterson? If your opinion is positive, do you think Tavon is head a shoulders a better receiver now and the future?
Uh oh. lol Hey BTW, I believe Al Fronczak now has Tavon as his top receiver so apparently our numbers are growing larger.
Nice post.... and some great points. Patterson/Austin is a tough decision. I love both skill sets. For me, between the two playmakers, it would come down to trust factor and who we add in FA. If we sign Jennings, who's a stud in his own right in the slot, I'd go with the outside guy- Patterson. If we go with a perimeter guy (especially Wallace) then Austin in the slot would be an outstanding compliment and would make more sense IMO. I absolutely love the idea of having a dangerous receiver working the inside who has the entire field as his oyster, no limitations as he can work sideline to sideline and from behind the LOS up to 50+ yards downfield. Who else has that kind of luxury? As far as trust factor goes, I'd give Austin the edge b/c his football intelligence seems high, he plays smart, and was given a tremendous workload & responsibility level at WVU that he knocked out of the park. He's a natural route runner, has a great feel for the game in that regard, and already seems to understand how to work coverage (all more so than Patterson IMO). I know he's small but you can't touch this kid beyond 5 yards and you wont be pressing him from the slot very much if at all, so how do you stop him once he's in sync with Tannehill? If the rest of Patterson's game can eventually match his talent level then I'd probably take Patterson, but at this point I feel safer with Austin in that regard. If we sign Wallace (which seems the greatest of all likelihoods at the moment), then Austin paired with a solid, heady, dependable receiver like Swope would make the most sense to me as a proper compliment opposite him.
The Huddle Report dude who writes their profiles has had Tavon at the top since January when he wrote his profile.
If we didn't have 5 picks in the top 82 I might not put Austin so high, but with that many picks I feel we're in the fortunate position to kickstart the draft by going with the best receiver at his respective position (slot). If we have a bad overall draft then nobody at #1 is gonna change it; however, if we have a great overall draft then the electric Austin at #1 would make it allll the better.
The value board dude doesn't have him as high as Drew. Like the 4th or 5th WR. Drew also loves Denard Robinson's potential as a pro slot. If we didn't get Tavon, then Robinson in like the 4th maybe a fall back option. My ideal top 5 picks would also include Ertz at 42, and Swope at 54. DJ wants Eifert, and I wouldn't mind, but he'll go 1st for TEs and before our 2nd rounders. Ertz may too, but better chance of being there. Maybe Jordan Poyer makes it to our 3rd rounder along with Devin Taylor the 3a pick. That would be a nice top 5. Maybe better to take Swope at 42 to ensure getting him, then if Ertz is gone by 54, take Jordan Reed, Kelce or Escobar. Austin, Swope and a seam busting TE would give us some firepower. Also I think we can grab another solid RB in the 4th or 5th like Johnathan Franklin or Stepfan Taylor, my favorites for that area of the draft.
That first 5 you mentioned would be an awesome draft. I'd have my happy hat on after that. I think Austin + a seam busting TE would have such a great compounding effect on the offense as the doors of possibility would open up. I'm somewhat comfortable with waiting till 54 for Swope; are you? Any birdies think he could go higher? Wonder how long it'd take Denard to get up to speed in our offense.
While I have concerns about Austin's NFL future and his fit in Philbin's offense, the one thing I do like about him, is he's unlikely to bust. With his versatility at WR, RB, and K/P returner and his physical skill set, there's little chance he busts. At worst you're drafting a Darren Sproles type of player. And while I don't think a Darren Sproles type (again, at worst) is an ideal pick in the 1st, it certainly is safer than a Patterson. While the upside is huge, If CP busts, there's not much you can do with him and about it. That's kind of why I was asking what you thought about CP. Two different players in that regard. One is boom or bust. The other is boom or consistent contributor, even if it's not the level you hope for. Which, I think screams Ireland. Get someone who will at worst contribute, and has high enough upside to be a stud (Odrick, Davis, and Pouncey). Even knowing that, I still get nervous at the idea of Austin @ 12 or round 1. Maybe that's in part (beyond my other listed reasons) because of trust issues I have with Ireland and his unwillingness to address the position early and often. While I (and most of us) fantasize about drafting 2 WR's and a TE with our first 5 picks, I could easily see us drafting 1 WR and using the rest of our 4 day 1&2 picks on CB's, DL/LB, and OL, even if we don't sign Wallace, Jennings, or a big FA. And then drafting another receivers in rounds 5-7, effectively making someone like Austin/CP carry the weight of the offense on their shoulders.
