Here's the thing with Mathieu. Once you are addicted, you are always addicted. It doesn't matter how long you stay sober, you will always have the addiction. Bringing this guy into an area like South Beach is a recipe for disaster. Jimmy Johnson said that the reason he didn't draft Ray Lewis was that he felt Ray needed to get out of Miami. You don't bring an alcoholic to a bar.
I get that, I'm guilty of it, and I'll take the hit if I have to, but if I can get this kid with a late third round pick, I'm all over it.
he can smoke some doobs in the offseason, anyone can cut it out of their diet for a while..treat it as a luxury and someone can curb that. Not gonna lie though, Miami is a tough city for him, could eat him up..
We had his brother in camp once back in the Saban era. He's still in the league and been a starter for a couple of teams. Abram Elam and Atari Bigby were two good safeties that Saban let go who did well for other teams.
You take a gamble on a kid like that, and if you hit, you look like a genius. However, i would feel more comfortable taking a gamble on him if he were more of a physical specimen. His upside is on intangibles, and i'm not keen to gamble on intangible upside on someone who is a proven knucklehead.
Huh??No, his upside is not in the intangible dept, his talent is very tangible, very evident, third round, no problem on the risk..
There's a lot to like of Moore on film and a lot not to like- I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt as per strength and speed and it looks like I was wrong. 4.95 and 12 reps is just pure awful- iirc he did well in some of the other testing but he certainly hurt himself this week. Good, productive edge rusher and I like that about him, but valid points have been made for some time here by CK and others that his strength is subpar, speed questionable and he just gets stonewalled too often. He looks more smooth than explosive and I wanted to see how he would perform this week- he failed.
No. He is not the biggest, fastest, strongest, most physical, most technical player. His talent comes from knowing how to be in the right place at the right time and make the plays in those moments. That's an intangible. He is all intangibles, and that does not mix with being a knucklehead.
Shamarko Thomas 4.38 then 4.41 1st 10 yards looked very fast, explosive Desmond Trufant 4.31 then 4.38 Eric Reid certainly looks the part of S, very cut, ran something like a 4.52 then a 4.56 Vaccarro 4.59 then 4.63
Well, I'm not generally into excuse making, however what I saw from Moore is a pulled quad in the last 10 yds of his 4.95 40 run, and some guys just have long arms and the 225 bench will not be their strong suit. To me, I see a strongside DE in the 4-3 after he bulks up a bit as a rookie/1st yr guy, this is why he slips imo, he is a bit of a project but still did well in college just on hustle plays so he is not starting at the small college level.
You never know, Mike Irvin was known as a party guy in Dallas, but would run wind sprints until he threw up the next day. Is Mathieu cut from the same cloth? Or is he a PacMan level of knucklehead that takes years to find himself?
Not in the context that I was asking... If he was biting on things that allowed him to get beat... then that means the 40 times for the 2 players are not really in question, and instead it just highlights the talent/skill difference between the 2 players. If he was just getting burned by raw speed... then it would bring into question either the validity of the 40 times, and/or the difference between the 2 players to be able to carry their pads well.
just because he's small, doesn't mean he doesn't have great talent, he's only not big and strong, that's it, he's an explosively talented athlete sir, his change of direction, hip movement, hands, natural movement is excellent, 2nd he has great instincts, the combination is serious..
I can't answer that question pods, I do see a kid that loves the game, loves to be around the players, didn't physically hurt anybody, didn't hit a woman, is very confident in his abilities, teammates like to be around him, coaches wanna coach him, and he's got great talent and instincts..if I can get a player like that in the third round, it's worth the risk imo.
Some thoughts. 1. Xavier Rhodes was already in the discussion for the #12 pick. The only thing that's likely happened here is Johnthan Banks just got taken out of that discussion. 2. Look at Kayvon Webster busting out that 4.35. I'm telling ya. Really underrated. 3. A 4.44 is a good time for Nickell Robey, good enough to be what he likely is which is a slot corner and Antoine Winfield wannabe. 4. Darius Slay a 4.31? Step on up. 5. Shamarko Thomas finally getting his due. Way past time. 6. This is a slow group of safeties. Shamarko and Earl Wolff could both climb and turn the position upside down relative to what people currently think of it.
Instincts are intangibles. Again, his physical attributes are not the greatest. That is not to say he has poor physical attributes, only that they do not set him apart. What sets him apart is what you pointed out, his instincts. Those are intangibles. I'm just not comfortable taking a gamble on him so early. It is a risky gamble, you can at least concede this. 4th round and after, the upside equals and surpasses the risk, i'd take a gamble then. Also what position would you play him? He is not a starting corner. So you'd be drafting someone high for a slot corner and special teams. Not enough.
Nope. There's still opportunity after that, like going the small school route. See Janoris Jenkins etc. He was so good he likely thought he was untouchable, so it took him a few times to realize he wasn't. Think about it, he was high at times throughout a season he accomplished: - Consensus All American - SEC Defensive POY - SEC Championship Game MVP - Chuck Bednarik NCAA Defensive POY - Heisman Finalist Mathieu knew he was high when he accomplished the above, so in his head he likely immaturely rationalized it as "Hey, I'm good enough to smoke a little weed and be the best defensive player in the country so it's obviously not hurting my play.", which is understandable but not acceptable, and it took him a few slaps against the face to realize the football world, especially the NFL, could care less how good he plays and how unaffected his game is by marijuana, that if he's high, he ain't playing.
Bump for CK... Sorry if me picking your brain about this guy is taking you out of DB-mode today... lol
that's why I said 2nd", as in on top of the athleticism.. Let me be clear, he has limited size and strength, he has great talent/athleticism, talent/athleticism are not intangibles, in addition to his great natural talent/athleticism he has excellent instincts.. I play him in the slot and I play him at free safety next to Jones in certain formations, Jones hoovering around the LOS while this guy gets to roam and make plays could be absolutely a dynamic combination, completely complimentary skillsets for those two positions..Blitzer, punt returner..if he didnt have red flags he would go in the first round.
Is he a thug or just a pothead? I honestly haven't followed him very closely, so I can't say myself. But I think there is a difference. Either way, while I like his athleticism, I don't know that without his off-field issues, if he would be worth an early first-round pick. He left a lot to be desired in terms of technique when he was on the field. Ultimately, I'd be alright with using a 4th on him, and that would be kind of pushing it.
Super Split Second Post-Combine Thoughts on Pick 12 1. Johnthan Banks is out. 2. Dee Milliner was already likely out (too high) but if he was halfway out before, he's all the way out now. 3. Cordarrelle Patterson may be out if the report about his interviews is true (if true, it's likely whiteboard work). 4. Damontre Moore may be in. I doubt he goes above Miami's pick now. I would LIKE to say Miami won't consider him. It certainly makes no sense to me. But a lot of what Miami does makes no sense to me, and with the Texas A&M connection as a wildcard there's always a possibility. 5. Tank Carradine is in now. He's getting the traction he deserves. 6. Lane Johnson was already in. Eric Fisher and Luke Joeckel are now in play as well. Any of the three could fall to #12 including Joeckel. 7. Sharrif Floyd is out. Too high a pick. But with Star Lotulelei's heart condition, he is now IN PLAY. 8. Tyler Eifert very well may be in play now. Not my choice, but with this staff it's possible.
If getting kicked out of LSU was really rock bottom then he wouldn't have been arrested for having something like 8 baggies of weed in his apartment along with electronic scales and other implements. This all happened AFTER he was kicked out.
I bumped it up to "strong" consideration.... which I thought was higher than just normal consideration.
Alen said it best a while ago. Doesn't matter if you want to call it "thug", or "pothead" or "addict". The real label is "unreliable".
As a cornerback he would already have "strong" consideration just by being on the short list. They need corners.
I hope not concerning Moore, he is not even the prospect Karlos Dunlap was coming out a couple of years ago, and this after Dunlap passed out in his car prior to the draft, heck he's not even Michael "Giraffe" Johnson and he went in what the 4th rd? What I see in Moore is the sort of strongside DE who can get out to the sideline on those now popular read option plays, even then his strength at the poa is questionable and likely at least a 1 yr project.
IMO, Joeckel didn't help his cause at all by working out at the combine. Comparing him to Fisher and Johnson, I cannot see how he's constantly mocked as the #1, while the other two generally go between 7 and 12. If all 3 were on the board when Miami picks, hypothetically speaking because it won't really happen, I'd take Johnson. Johnson is much more athletic, and Fisher looks stronger. If KC doesn't take Geno, IMO they should take the best defensive player and IMO, all things considered, it is Floyd.
The potential is easy to imagine. I get that. I just don't feel comfortable with a high pick on him. He might turn out to be a dynamic player and stay clean for his career. He might turn out to be a dynamic player and not stay clean and cut down his playing career. He might stay clean but be unable to translate his play from college to the NFL. He might not even stay clean long enough for people to evaluate his NFL career. Too many ifs.
