At least one. And we ought give some thought to Justin Hunter and Cordarrelle Patterson because they have the pure physical potential to actually be game CHANGERS at the next level. I've made it known in the past why I don't like Justin Hunter as much as many people did coming into this season. But let's rewind to a year ago. He just busted up his ACL. If you'd have told me that he'd come back from the ACL in year one to where he caught for 1100 yards and 9 TDs in the SEC, and then went out to the Combine and at 6'4" busted out a 4.41 in the 40 yard dash with 39.5 inch vertical and an absolutely ludicrous 11'4" broad jump...then I'd have told you he just did everything he needed to do to be a top 10 pick in the NFL Draft. Why do I still not like him as much as that? Because to me he's leggy and cumbersome trying to run after the catch. He's surprisingly good at it, at times, but I'm not sure it translates. His 4.41 at 6'4" with 39.5" vertical and 11'4" broad jump also hasn't translated vertically that often this season. But is that because he's in his FIRST year off ACL surgery, where everyone has long acknowledged that a player truly only comes "back" in their second year? That's what bugs me when I think about being a "seller" on Justin Hunter draft stock. That's what would keep me awake at night...the simple realization that if he was limited in his comeback from the ACL and if that led to some of the things I didn't like on tape, then this guy has the pure ability to actually be a #1 at the next level.
I'd not take Moore ahead of Werner, Jordan, Ansah or Mingo. His low bench reps though could also be due to his long arms. I'd not be too overly concerned by it. Over 34" arms is pretty long. It effects some guys more than others though. The real vines belong to Devin Taylor at 36 inch arms and he only managed 14 reps. Also for a OT, Fluker and his 36 3/4" arms only managed 21 and he doesn't look weak when he is drive blocking. Taylor tied Mingo for best broad at 10'6. That's a lot of explosion in the big man. As for Moore, I agree there are things to be disappointed over, with his combine. Some good things too though.
Whoa. That's Calvin Johnson ridiculous. Calvin Johnson's original 11'7" was one of the most ridiculous things I'd ever seen.
With 36 inch arms at 266 lbs, I buy it. I do. With 34 inch arms at 250 lbs, I don't. Not for a second. That points to being a weak player, and not having a good weight lifting work ethic.
The thing that broke the tie between Hunter and Patterson for me was KB21 posting some numbers that showed Patterson was much more productive against Tennessee's toughest opponents whereas Hunter feasted more on the weaker ones to build his numbers. Just to watch some film of them they both look very talented. Patterson looks a lot better after the catch too. Irving Fryar like to me. For that matter, I like what Da'Rick Rogers looks like after the catch too better than Hunter.
I really wish I'd managed to write my Draft Winds segment on Devin Taylor prior to this Combine. He's blowing it up.
He looked good in position drills, nice back pedal like I noticed in his USC film. I didn;t catch his 40 time, what did he run?
I agree with all that. But what if we assume that what he'll be in 2013 is going to be PHYSICALLY different from what he was in 2012, because it'll be his 2nd year off ACL surgery? Does that change the context within which we view how he played? Suddenly I think about how (one of my favorite safeties) D.J. Swearinger was able to keep up with Hunter vertically in man coverage, and I think that won't be the case a year from now. This Combine may quietly vault Justin Hunter back into the 1st round. Being honest. He had his fans among the scouts prior to 2012, many considered he and Keenan Allen to be "the guys".
I'd give Moore another chance to bench at his pro day and hope he could get close to 20. It is possible to have off days on the bench... and it is possible he lifted anyway while not being physically 100%. Doubtful he'd risk it, but I'm still willing to give him a chance to redeem himself at his pro day before declaring for certain a poor work ethic.
I even put together a video for it. You can see the upload date. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSr5VelnWgU Had a nice outline explaining how he'd be the ideal fit for the Miami Dolphins at RDE opposite Cameron Wake because Wake's uniqueness as a player (a left end that doesn't play entirely like a left end) necessitates the Dolphins look for a unique player opposite him (a right end that doesn't play entirely like a right end). I had some good isolations on how Devin Taylor may have been markedly better in East-West Shrine practice because of the simple fact that he moved from left end to right end, how he may just like that side better. He was certainly given less to think about than when he was at South Carolina. The downside is that there are entire games, with Tennessee 2012 being the best example I can think of, where you would not even DRAFT the guy period. He had nothing. No energy. Yet just a week earlier he was a live spark wire against the Florida Gators. It leads me to conclude that he's not yet a mature professional athlete that can make sure he brings the same energy level week to week. That or he was secretly injured. But the guy's physical characteristics are incredible. Super long arms. Surprisingly good 1st step, better than given credit for (see 1.60 in 10 yard split, jump measurements). And the motor on him, the pure speed and range, he's all over the field.
That's too extreme a knock to me. I'd say he is still a 1st. Borderline top 15 though. Should go between about 14 and 21.
CK, i asked this in the Swope thread, and i'll ask here to get your opinion as a longtime Bailey lover. If the Dolphins were faced with the conundrum of being in the 2nd/3rd round and wanting a WR, and having both Bailey and Swope available to them, which player should they get. Imo they are both similar players, with the production and style, with Bailey being perhaps the overall better WR, but now seeing Swope has actual legitimate speed and adding the chemistry he has with Tannehill. It's an interesting comparison IMO.
Interesting... CK mentioned that Hunter tore his ACL. Do you happen to know if KB's numbers were post-ACL injury, or prior, or both? If it was post-ACL or included the post ACL... I'd be interested to know how he looked pre-ACL in that same regard? After the catch, Patterson is a freak... so I wouldnt downgrade any WR just b/c they werent as good in the open field as Patterson is. He sets the bar pretty damn high in that regard, lol. I mean, physically Hunter seems like a hell of a specimien... and he seems to have been productive as well. Usually, awesome physical tools + good production = high pick. But there is no chatter on this guy. I've heard tons of WRs discussed more than him, like Patterson, Allen, Woods, Patton, Swope, Autsin, Bailey, etc.... but this kid is 6'4, runs like the wind, jumps out of the building... and produced? To a novice like me... it just doesnt seem to add up.
The other guy to watch out for and I've already talked about him plenty is Cornelius Washington of Georgia. I was going to do a Draft Winds feature on him as well. He's set to work out today as a LINEBACKER which I'm not sure I understood. But man already showed off his big boy pants by breaking off 36 bench reps at 6'4" and 265 lbs. Oh, and he has 34 inch arms (ya hear that, Damontre?). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFqf-avlERs
the question for me comes in the hand eye coordination dept, catch radius and ability to time his jump, extend, and high point the ball, football intellect.
I feel the same. However where a month ago i thought there was a big gulf between both players, i don't think so anymore.
There's not much on him pre-ACL because he tore the ACL in the 3rd game of the season in 2011. To that point he had 16 catches for 302 yards and 2 TDs in only 2 games against Montana and Cincinnati. The Bearcats were ranked #25 at the time, he caught 10 balls for 156 yards and a TD against them. In 2010 he had a spectacular 416 yards and 7 TDs...only only 16 catches.
Interesting, I don't think I saw the Tennessee game. I thought he ran a little hot and cold but I didn't realize the cold was that cold. Secret injury would make sense. So what draft project moved this one to the back burner?
Not following you. Were you simply asking about how good he is at those traits? Or do you have questions/doubts regarding his hand/eye coordination, catch radius, and doubts about his ability to high point a ball?
His catch radius is wonderful. With that long frame of his and his vertical, he shows the ability to unfurl at the top of his route like tent pole. But he doesn't necessarily consistently come down with the ball. A lot of that is because he's always ending up in those challenged catch situations going after the physically contested high ball and it's not fair to expect ANYONE to come down with that consistently every time. But the lack of separation could have been the knee. We don't know.
NFLN just showed Mingo again in the drills- elite speed, feet and quicks- no reason at all why he can't go to OLB imo. Given his low weight and slight build for a DE the move would certainly make sense. Jordan certainly looked fast and quick, but not on Mingo's level. That being said, Mingo certainly has a lot to prove at DE or OLB.
That's surprising. I'd rather have him at end, wouldn't you. I realllly like Washington. IMO the underlying ability is there to be shaped into a solid rush end. TBH I'd rather have Washington than DaMontre Moore.
Made waves by admitting that he and Barkevious Mingo gambled with each other to the tune of thousands of dollars over who would have more sacks in games, and who would get drafted higher. Also admitted that whenever they were playing inferior opponents he didn't bring a lot of effort to the game because he didn't need to. He got himself up for "the big boys" like Alabama and whatnot. He was trying to say that in the NFL he knows it's different and what he did before as a child he has to do now grown up as a man, etc. But that was still a TERRIBLE thing to admit. Also there's the infamous list where he appeared on the strength coach's office window as one of the players who care only about themselves, miss workouts and are full of excuses. And I've also heard that LSU coaches are privately not singing his praises...just the opposite. But other than that, yeah he speaks well.
Taking a guy to play a position he's never played is not to be taken lightly. A lot of teams will shy away from that at 12 overall. It's one thing if you're a Von Miller and you've already played out in space a lot of your college career. It's another thing if you're Barkevious Mingo and you've always been a down defensive end.
WOW. As terrible as that is to admit it to, it might be better than the alternative, which is--- letting the NFL think he lacks talent or isn't good enough. Rock and a hard place.
The worst part about it to me was he seemed to think it was OK. He justified it. He said that in college you have teams that are not as good as you but in the NFL everyone is good. Therefore, it was OK to loaf against some teams in college but he recognizes it won't be OK in the NFL. That is NOT what the NFL wants to hear. That's a player that is going to get caught letting his foot off the gas, both during game when you're up on the scoreboard, and in general if the team is on a win streak or enjoying success. The NFL doesn't want to hear why it was OK in college. They want to hear that it was a stupid thing to do in and of itself and that he should play every game like it's his last.
