I feel like we really haven't discussed this position much at all. But maybe we should. The more coaches tape I watch of the Dolphins' season the more I find that I don't like, it seems. I like Randy Starks. I think Randy Starks should be re-signed. But the Dolphins seem like they're prioritizing other free agents, not Randy. Meanwhile, they continue to say things that suggest they have a discomfort with Jared Odrick moving over to defensive tackle, and the more tape I watch, the more I see why. They're also losing Tony McDaniel, who was a key player in nickel packages as a defensive tackle as he was big enough to be stout for run plays, while also being mobile and tall enough to get out and affect passing lanes and help with pursuit from inside-out. We know what Paul Soliai is. He's exploitable if the defense puts you in a nickel package with their half-personnel and starts forcing you to get inside-out. Essentially what I'm saying is that if we lose Randy Starks we have no defensive tackles I trust in nickel packages on scheduled downs. I'm not talking about 3rd & 7+. I'm talking about 1st & 10, 2nd & 10, 2nd & 5, Goal Line, etc. The mobility isn't there with Soliai and we've got nobody else to trust. And that's not even talking about base packages. At this point I don't trust Jared Odrick in base packages at defensive tackle along side Paul Soliai either. If we lose Randy Starks, we're looking at perhaps a total re-build of the defensive tackle unit. The three that will come into frame in the top 12 will be Star Lotulelei, Sheldon Richardson and Sharrif Floyd. There's a chance ALL THREE are gone by the time Miami picks at #12. But if one of them makes it to pick #12...do you take one? Truthfully they might be the only three defensive tackles in the Draft you trust to fill the gap created by the loss of a Randy Starks. I like Kawann Short and like what he showed at the Senior Bowl but I question his weight room work ethic, stamina and general mobility.
When talking about the defensive tackle position, I think something we should bring up is all the changes that have happened to offenses in the NFL over the past few years. With the zone read now becoming something that is a part of NFL offenses, you have to figure out a way to combat this defensively. Because of the fact that your defensive ends cannot pin their ears back and go full bore after the quarterback against these zone read teams, it puts more emphasis on your ability to push the pocket from the inside to make things uncomfortable for the offense. IMO, even if Miami resigns Randy Starks, they lack the kind of athleticism needed to push the pocket and make plays in pursuit from the inside. At the same time, I think you have to be careful because you do not want to emphasize athleticism at the DT position so much that you forget about being physical against the run.
Retain McD as Starks insurance. And if they won't put Odrick at DT, they really should be looking for work elsewhere.
I'm sorry but this getting ridiculous... Ireland has done a **** job on this team. If you plan to let Starks walk, for Christ sakes, you may as well have traded him for a pick at the deadline to a playoff team who needed interior help. And if you refuse to move Odrick to DT... Then Coyle, or Ireland, or both are brutal. Look, Odrick can play there, but you're seeing how he looks as he impersonates a DE and getting concerned. If he were on a decent team, they'd have him on a plan to get up to 315-320 lbs, add strength and focus on techniques to anchor and play with leverage inside... Instead he wasted his time trying to rush the QB, hand fight tackles while minding contain on the edge, and staying light enough to be quick (oxymoronical usage in his case). It's borderline abuse of resources. At least they let Wake do what he does best. And thankfully they haven't sprouted the idea of Soliai at end yet, though they did drop him into coverage. Honestly, think of how many resources we have this offseason and how excited you are at the potential for the things we can do with all those picks and salary cap money. That amount of excitement is the same amount of hissy-fit venom, leading to dejection you will experience when you witness the choices Ireland makes with those resources this offseason. I'm so fed up right now. Re-sign Starks, you ****ing bonehead.
This is probably a good topic for debate/conversation. If it's between Richardson & Floyd, I might be more tempted with Floyd b/c he's probably a better fit and would allow for better scheme continuity (even though I do like Richardson a lot). I'm just thinking if Soliai isn't re-signed next year, Floyd would offer the greater inside physical presence, which I'd think we'd need with a possible loss of Soliai. Floyd offers 1 & 2 gap scheme versatility whereas Richardson is just a 1-gap guy IMO. I love Richardson's ability to disrupt from the inside, but to me it would make more sense to go with Floyd and sign Wallace Gilberry as a nickel interior rusher. It's a really really tough call though. I could see strong arguments from both sides. However, if Star happens to be there, he'd be the one <in my eyes at least>. Break him in this year and let him replace Soliai next. But then again Coyle had Geno Atkins, soooo perhaps he'd be tickled to get Richardson. The other thing is, with our Dline often flipped with Wake being more comfortable on the left, wouldn't that put Richardson on the strong side next to Cam rather than the weakside where Atkins usually lines up IIRC? Could that cause some problems against the run?
By the way, hopefully we also let Long go. Then we can have a hole at DT and LT, but only one first round pick to fill them at the same quality level. This is like a war of roster attrition, only the enemy is within.
Okay. I'm calming down. Sorry. More on topic, I've heard good things about Sharrif, but haven't watched him yet. Guess I'll cue up the tape. Actually, I really enjoy watching DTs play, weirdly. I love it. Power. Leverage. Awareness. Angles. Hand use. A great DT simply refuses to let a play do what its designed to do in its blocking. I love that. If we are talking about replacing Starks, it's a tall order. That blend of quickness, strength, and awareness is tough to come by. Also realize, playing inside has a lot of technique and experience and recognition which means rookies don't often perform at a high level. I doubt any rookie comes in and matches Starks level of play in their first year.
Rarely does a Rook DT play at a high level, it is a sort of different world on the inside in the NFL. Which tells me, if Starks and McD walks, and they don't trust Odie to play DT, say it with me... "Rebuilding"
Odrick does play defensive tackle, Barry.... and end... and everywhere else in between. I don't know that I would label Odrick with a specific position. IMO he's like a utility lineman whom Coyle moves around to provide some scheme versatility, let us mix up looks. He plays more of a hybrid end/tackle role IIRC, not a traditional 4-3 end. I'd still rather have a more athletic hybrid end like Ansah, but I wouldn't call Odrick the worst of our worries by any stretch. I'd actually consider him a valuable player.
One free agent that would be worth adding would be Derek Landri of the Philadelphia Eagles. He's been passed around the league like a joint, from Jacksonville to Carolina to Philadelphia. He came out in 2007 and I liked him back then as a late round guy that I could see making some noise. He's done that. In 2008 he had a +2.7 PFF grade on 332 snaps. In 2009 he had a -1.7 on 197 snaps. He went to Carolina and I think Carolina miscast him a little bit, over-relied upon him. He had a -8.6 on 805 snaps. He went off to Philadelphia and immediately had a +21.4 on 355 snaps. This year it was down to -3.4 on 496 snaps but I will say I watched three of his games and didn't end up agreeing with some of PFF's negative grades. I think he's a nickel defensive tackle that you can use situationally and especially in your game planning against certain offenses. He's a high character player.
Could be, when you lose what..8 starters from a mediocre team, do not expect great results phinsantional. Add up the guys who started for us in the final game of 2013 who are FA's and add in the info that only 2 are being approached to be resigned. Tell me who you end up with.
you end up with a lot of cap space that doesn't disappear just b/c you don't re-sign your own guys. They're all free agents now; they're not gonna give us bargain pricing, so why would you want to limit our FA options by only signing 2012 Miami players when we have the entire NFL at our disposal? Obviously the starters we had weren't getting the job done (see 4 straight losing seasons), so perhaps we need to mix it up a bit and allocate that money in different ways than just X amount to Starks, X amount to Hartline, etc.
Starters in line to depart: Offense: Hartline Fasano Garner Long Bush 5 of 11 or what 43%? Defense: Smith Clemons Starks McDaniel (I toss him in not b/c he is a "starter' but b/c the Dline rotates often) 4/11 or what 33%? Now do tell, we also need to add pieces, as well as replace those who are set to walk for FA $$$, and we'll have to replace 9 of 25 starters on top of the needed upgrades And keep in mind, we really do not have ready replacements for those starters save for Miller for Bush. This is where "Rebuilding" comes from, if one thinks you can sign 9 NFL quality starters to get to -0-, then add on top of them needed upgrades, I think I'd like to try your brand of Scotch.
I mean committing to him as a DT, not a guy who needs to also play end. If he is a dedicated DT you pack the weight on him and have him focus on learning the craft of playing and practicing to improve at playing inside. When you move him all over, you cannot change his body to suit being inside, as he still needs to be able to contain QBs on the outside. Plus you have him mixing techniques, and practicing multiple spots, multiple roles, multiple anything. No one ever won the Nobel Prize in physics while also winning it for Literature. You pick one thing and master it to be great. Odrick is on track to become another Tony ****ing McDaniel. Versatile but not great at any spot. To really know what Odricks ceiling is, you have to make a decision on where he will play and let him dedicate getting his body, his technique and his mindset right for that spot. Now, if he was a total freak athlete who could overcome not having that focus on one position, fine... But he isn't. So your taking a guy who could become a good DT and turning him into an average DE/DT hybrid. That's pissing away a resource, IMO.
Great... cap space. More money to sign free agents. Remind me again of Ireland's batting average in free agency, so I know what sort of windfall to start getting my nipples hard about.
It's pissing away a resource if Starks is signed and a def end is selected at 12...Odrick being the one pissed on. this thread is depressing me..CK, what'd you see, did Solai's fat *** run out of steam midway?, cause he looked to have gained weight in the final quarter of the season.?
Lol...section got me all worked up in the main forum talkin that Clemons is the only one left out of two drafts stuff...lol..patience is thin.
If we're looking at big Paul Solia in the middle and a jumbo right end in Odrick, then I'm flipping back to the Geno Atkins mold with Sheldon Richardson as the top DT priority followed by Penn State's Jordan Hill who's a firecracker of a defensive tackle and would be worth a 3rd-4th round pick as a 1-gap disrupter and interior nickel rusher. Big fan of Hill's. After these two should be FSU's Everett Dawkins who could be a nice addition to our nickel pass rush in my eyes. [video=youtube;dJcbDCuStPs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJcbDCuStPs[/video]
Im really glad you know exactly who we are approaching! Now tell me what the draft plans are looking like? Oh what's that? You're talking out of your *** based on some ****ty beat reporters word? Thought so.
Ireland's "batting average" in free agency is pretty good, you've probably got a pretty over-inflated idea of free agency. It's not nearly as reliable as you seem to think.
They do need to probably make some sort of move at a start-level defensive tackle this off-season. Even if they retain Starks, Soliai is a free agent next season and he's overpaid and overrated. The Odrick innuendos are getting a bit silly. He almost certainly lines up more often as a Defensive Tackle than he does a Defensive End as it speaks.
I have been really against drafting a DT. I think you should re-sign Starks and if not, I think it's an easy decision to move Odrick over. That being said, I have been thinking lately about what happens if Lotulelei or Floyd fall to our spot. Best case scenario a team a couple picks back will want to jump up and get one of them. That way you move down only a little bit (I would not move back more than 5 picks) and pick up something in the process. If not though, you have to seriously consider taking one of those guys because they could really be difference makers and you simply can't pass on guys like that unless there is another difference maker available at another more pressing position.
I could see Dallas trading with us if Star makes it to 12. They could use interior help of that caliber.
I'd rather take him than move all the way back to 18 though. He has elite talent. You probably aren't going to find that kind of ability at 18 and picking up an extra pick isn't worth it at that point. At 18 you're probably missing out on all of the top pass rushers, Patterson (and maybe even Allen), Vaccaro, the top 3 OTs, and the top 2 corners.
I really don't see Star Lotulelei making it to 12. I think he SHOULD be the first DT off the board. Sheldon Richardson is great but some teams will be uncomfortable with his lack of physical strength or forcefulness at a position that requires that probably first and foremost, and there are some off field issues to address with him as well. If he makes it past Jacksonville at 2, whom I think could target him specifically because of the traits they value on defense (game speed, swarming factors), then he could even fall all the way to 12 overall. Shariff Floyd is a beast but I don't think he goes above Lotulelei. And personally if Lotulelei did somehow make it to 12 I would rather just grab him than trade back and use your boon from the trade to grab another Michael Egnew.
If you like Lotulelei enough that you would jump at the chance to draft him at #12, I think you make an effort to trade up. He's got the upside of a pretty rare kind of player it is worth paying a premium for
Well, to me, if Star makes it there and he is the best value on the board you almost have to take him. Still, just not a fan of taking lineman that high, we need guys who handle the football more than another blue collar lineman
If Star is there you take him and build the defense around him, if Te'o is there you take him. Same thought with Kuechly last year, we don't really have many linchpins on defense. Vontae is gone, Smith and Starks may be gone this year. Soliai, Dansby, and Burnett could be gone next year. We have Cam Wake but he is 31. You may be relying on Odrick, Misi, and Jones to be the core of the defense sooner rather than later.
That's a poor statement b/c this can be said about every position if they don't have a solidly built team around them. However, on a good team, a great defensive tackle is worth his weight in gold. If you don't believe me, ask many of the SB winners. Outside of QB, it's arguable that defensive line has the greatest impact on winning, and it's not easy to have a great dline w/o a great DT helping to control the point of attack, wreak havoc in the backfield, or disrupt an offense's game plan.
Kiper ranks Floyd 1st and Star 2nd, and if you wanted one to compliment Soliai, then IMO Floyd makes more sense. If you wanted to have two granite blocks in the middle like when the Bears had Ted Washington and Keith Traylor, or when the Ravens had Tony Siragusa and Sam Adams, then Star would go well with Soliai. Maybe though the best all around compliment to Soliai would be Richardson. All in all, this would assume Starks isn't resigned, because if he is, it would be a poor use of draft resources to trade up to draft another DT, or even draft one at 12, depending on who else is available.
How many starters have we lost so far in free agency? How many have signed with other teams? Zero? I thought so. Because free agency hasn't opened yet. Most teams have either a plethora of pending free agents or are up against it cap wise. Jesus H Christ on a bike, relax. There is no sense in gnashing your teeth and wailing lamentations over something that has not happened yet. If we are a week or two away from the draft, and all our free agents have signed elsewhere and Ireland has only signed a few 2nd tier bargain basement types, then we'll have more cause for concern. Wait till that happens first though.
If one is going to be a prophet of doom, one sort of has to prophecy doom Mr C I do think the idea of Ireland throwing cash at FA's and actually having them sign here is something I'll have to see.
If you are content just being known as a prophet a doom, then, well, go ahead and have fun with that. It's a lot simpler than waiting till what is going to happen actually does happen and then formulating an opinion on that. BTW, are you a Canadian?
