Ireland: Egnew's going to have a good season.

You do realize that we're talking about Jake Long being a bad pick or not given the idea he'll probably walk, right? What you're posting is of dubious value in a thread about whether or not you think Ireland is a bad GM or not, much less given topic you ham-fistedly wedged it into.

 

yes.....and I already argued that if they don't re-sign him and it ends up being the wrong evaluation....then you can argue that it was a failed pick.

 

Matt Ryan clinched a playoff berth as a rookie without Julio Jones or Tony Gonzalez after inheriting a 4-12 team.

I made that point in my post. And our offense in 2010 consisted of Brandon Marshall, Davonne Bess, Brian Hartline, Ronnie Brown, and Ricky Williams. 4 of the 5 are pro-bowlers. Matt Ryan would've done just fine in Miami.

And seriously, lol @ "which isn't all that much".

It's really approaching the level of insanity the lengths that some Miami Dolphin fans go to to minimize Matt Ryan as an NFL Quarterback

 

What I find remarkable about Ryans sucess is him being able to do it without a probowl LT

 

Quoted the above to bump it.

And to ask why this bit of common sense is being ignored?

 

it's nothing short of pathetic. Matt Ryan turned Atlanta into a contender the second he stepped foot in the building, he has the record for most wins for a QB in his first 5 years with 56, has thrown over twice as many TD's as INTs, playoffs 4 out of 5 years, best record in the conference twice, and the one year he missed the playoffs he won 9 games. he is a winner, meanwhile our ****ty *** team is the complete opposite, we've become the laughingstock of the league and can't even crack .500, let alone make the damn playoffs. miami, buffalo, cleveland, st louis, that's the unique company that we're in, only 4 out of 32 teams that have had 4 straight losing seasons. congrats.

all the myopic and homer *** dolphins fans that think downplaying Matt Ryan's abilities or accomplishments makes the decision to pass on him an easier pill to swallow look like straight fools.

Jake Long over Matt Ryan was a MISTAKE. period. and we've clearly paid for it over the last handful of years. we should pray Tannehill turns out to be even HALF as successful as Matt Ryan has been and will continue to be.

 

Jake Long for his first 2 or 3 years was a better tackle than Matt Ryan was a QB, but you could have the best left tackle to ever step on the field and if he's protecting an average to below average QB (like Henne), your team probably won't be that good. the QB has a far bigger impact on wins and losses than any other position in football, which is why the Falcons would rather have an average LT protecting an excellent QB (Sam Baker and Matt Ryan) than a stud LT and a mediocre QB (Long and Henne).

 

Let me draw you a baseball analogy:

Which will win you more games? Having the 2nd best middle reliever in baseball or having the 8th best closer?

 

I don't believe Ryan would have been successful here. I think one of the keys was getting lucky that Gonzalez stayed so good for so long. I wanted a dynamic TE and I never would have guessed that he'd play at the level he did for so long. In Miami Ryan would have had lesser targets and been in the worst offensive system I've ever seen. Henning was a good OC once, but at best he dialed it in here. I know most fans don't understand enough to see how bad Henning was, but it was horrid. I don't believe any rookie QB would have played well in that system. And as a result we would have had no continuity.

 

It didn't look like he was dialing it in during the 2008 season when Penny was the QB.

 

Didn't Parcells himself even later admit it was a mistake?

 

yes

 

It's the health part of the quote.

 

This team was lacking weaponry at the receiving and TE area yet only veterans played this year. As the year went on veterans were released, veterans were added and released again, and then at the end of the year Mathews got his shot and he performed well. actually a lot of people are really high on him and for good reason. Egnew seems soft, but some players dont come in right away and prove they have it. In the pre-season Egnew showed flashes of the ability to create separation, its just as a 2nd or 3rd TE he needed to be able to block, so as to not inform the defense that he's in the game its most certainly going to be a pass! Much like Legadu came in and the Defense just knew it wasa run play. Egnew needs to get stronger and more physical, maybe he does that in an offseason. 20 years ago 3rd round draft picks were projects, the same can be true now, its just people want instant gratification. Especially Dolphin fans because we haven't won back to back play off games since when? 1994? so long ago not quite sure.....We need to give the kid some time to develop, he's basically a really big slow WR, he needs to develop blocking ability.....I hope he gets it. Oh, lastly, there never was a source given for a teammate calling him a ***** so that should be discredited IMO, if your going to talk smack man up and stand by your words, or dont talk smack at all.

 

Bringing in the WildCat was not his idea. With how smart Penny was, I'm sure he had a lot of say too.

 

There was nothing anywhere to suggest Jake Long would have health issues at the time of that draft.

 

New name is fitting and makes sense, but old name was pure awesomeness, just saying

 

Then, no. But since we're now playing the Flacco is the best QB of the class game, and since the "when healthy" part of the quote was built in, we're looking at it from what we know now.

 

He brings up the Flacco part to further enforce the the absurdity of the argument. "When healthy" was added because if it wasn't someone would have said, "well he didn't play great this year!!!!!!!!! Kill Ireland!!!!!!"

 

Adrian Peterson is the best Running back in the game. He's #1 at his position.

Drew Brees is #4 or #5 at his position.

Don't know about you. But I take Drew Brees if I'm starting a team. In fact I take Eli Manning, Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger, Matt Ryan, Heck even Joe Flacco before I take Peterson.

So that argument of taking Jake over Matt Ryan because Jake Long is top 2 at his position is beyond weak.

And it's debatable that Jake Long is even top 2 at his position. I made a lengthy post in another thread with video from a random game in 2009 (when Jake was supposedly elite) showing that Henning's offense may have had a lot to do with his success. In Sherman/Philbin's offense he's been asked to go one on one with opposing RDE's far more often per game than in Henning's offense in 2008, 2009, and 2010. And IMO, it's no coincidence that he doesn't look the same dominant player.


EDIT: FYI - I like Jake Long. I'd love Miami to be able to retain him at a reasonable price because I do feel he is a good LT and they are not easy to find. But it's cringe-worthy to see Dolphin fans still look back and debate that the right decision was made to pass on Matt Ryan.

 

He's 27 years old and was relatively dominant in the playoffs this year against great defenses. You're argument here is beyond ridiculous.

Roddy White had Hartline-like numbers going into 2008. Nothing special
Michael Turner was a back-up running back before pairing with Matt Ryan.

Could it be that Matt Ryan is crucial to their success?

He would've had some comparable weapons here too. Like 2nd overrall pick Ronnie Brown, Ricky Williams, Brandon Marshall in 2010. And seriously, who knows how Parcells/Ireland would've approached the situation had we obtained Matt Ryan. We wouldn't have had to waste a pick on Pat White in 2009, and maybe with our 2nd round pick in 2008 we get a good playmaker instead of Henne.

 

I think a lot of people are forgetting that Matt Ryan was not a sure thing and Jake Long was. I also think a lot of people are forgetting that it wasn't Jake Long over Matt Ryan, it was Long/Henne over Ryan/X. Ryan was not rated miles ahead of Henne.

Basically, following your take at this and applying it to what happened, I'd be more like choosing Peterson/Flacco over Brees/X. I'm not sure that has cut dried as people are making it.

Not too mention, all of this was done under the Parcells blueprint.

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Eop05, I'll even say if faced with the decision now, I'd take the QB 1st, but only because the rookie cap changed everything.

 

For the most part I agree.

And I've said previously: I wanted no part of Matt Ryan. I didn't see what the scouts saw from him at BC. He was a complete Wild Card with high bust potential to me at the time. I wanted Jake Long. I wanted that sure-fire pro-bowler. The run-blocking extraordinaire. Besides Ryan Tannehill, that was the most pleased I've been on draft day.

BUT: I was wrong.

Hindsight's 20/20. That's what I'm arguing. 5 years later it's clear as day that we should've taken Matt Ryan yet people still argue

None of this makes Jake Long less of a player obviously or in any way a bust of a pick. Just a wrong decision, albeit a tough one.

 

I think people arguing are arguing from the standpoint of blame. In hindsight, Ryan worked out better than Long, but that doesn't mean the Dolphion's FO deserves blame. And I think what KB was trying to point out was that if we're gonna let hindsight play a part, then Ryan over Long was a mistake too because it should have been Flacco over everyone.

 

Yeah, I'm not really one of those guys. And if anything I blame Parcells.

I blame Ireland for mistakes. But this isn't wasn't of them.

Flacco/Ryan. I still take Ryan. But I could see why some prefer Flacco.

 

I would only take Brees

 

I promise I was not trying to insinuate you were one of them btw.

 

Ryan's QB rating was 94 and 114 against two of the league's top Defenses.

Turner was a backup running back on SD before he joined ATL

Pat White and the WC are unnecessary if Matt Ryan is drafted by the Dolphins. A whole slew of events may have changed. We may have never signed Pennington, we probably wouldn't have drafted Pat White because there is a chance the WC is never introduced.

 

With all due respect: That's shocking to me.

In an expansion draft, taking Adrian Peterson over Eli Manning, Matt Ryan, and Ben Roethlisberger would be a colossal mistake, IMO

 

I disagree here to.

I think we would have signed Penny even if we had drafted Luck that year. With that, he would still have started, the WildCat would still need to be invented to make the plays his weak arm couldn't. Again, they didn't have Ryan & Henne rated that far apart.

 

Entirely possible

 

I just don't see Parcells not getting Penny here if he was available and I don't see Ryan, Henne or even Flacco beating him for the starting job when the short and fat version of Wanny is our coach.

In the end, our problem was Parcells & Sparano, IMO and not Long over Ryan. Then again i was vehemently against Parcells to begin with, so I'm biased.

 

I do agree somewhat. Parcell's obsession with not starting a rookie probably would've gotten the best of him. Especially when Pennington became available.

 

This is only based off of some rumors, but I think one other angle to look at it could have been at the time:

Long/Henne vs. Long/Flacco vs. Ryan/x

I recall that a few seasons after that draft, there was a rumor that came about that said that Miami tried to trade back into the first round to take Joe Flacco, after they had already selected Jake Long (I believe Ireland was behind that according to the rumor). However, the cost of trading in front of Baltimore was too steep (as deemed by Parcells) and he nixed the potential trade. Miami ended up taking Phillip Merling with the 32nd pick instead of moving up and allegedly taking Joe Flacco.

Just some food for thought.

 

If you were vehemently against Parcells, how can you be for Ireland? What have you seen from him to make you think that the hand picked guy Bill Parcells picked to be GM and influenced for the time he was here is doing anything much different or any better than Bill Parcells?