Not sure about that Dpate, Parcells said "..he will be a good player (in Miami) for a long long time.." 5 yrs, 2 ended on the IR, is not exactly a long time. Will say for those who think "we should have drafted Matt Ryan" No team was willing to trade up for him, that was one of the effects of having no Rookie Cap.
Maybe it was a ploy by Parcells to seek short term success over developing Matt Ryan since Wayne was planning to sell the team.. Bring in a veteran QB with a anchor at left tackle and booom, playoff appearance.
Nah, Penington was not waived until Favre was acquired and that was virtually at Training Camp's end iirc.
Is there any reason why that was foreseeable when he was drafted? If your definition of a good pick is the best possible player at any position, then there are going to be very few good picks in a draft.
What does that matter? The outcome is rather clear, he hasn't been what he was supposed to be. One can point to luck, or whatever, that doesn't matter either, that is simply how things turned out. It's not my definition.
If the goal is to assess culpability, there's got to be some degree of nuance and critical thinking. Fair enough.
This is what I was going to point out. We can leave the Ireland bashing for different venues. If this is the attitude Jake Long is going to take to the table, then this negotiation is going to be difficult. I would've thought his expectations would come down based on how his season went. Actually his last couple of seasons. But I guess not. That's problematic. At this point the best course of action may be to franchise him and then trade him.
Exactly. Not too mention, I'm not convinced Matt Ryan is all that great of a QB tbh. Sure, he's better than anything we had in that time, but that doesn't mean he's worth it either.
I think if they let him walk via free agency without any compensation then absolutely it will have proven to be a bad selection. With the #1 overall pick your expectations should be very high. The guy you get should be a player you feel comfortable keeping on your team for a decade or longer. If you're not comfortable keeping the guy on your team beyond 5 years then clearly he's not the player you thought he was. According to Armando, Tony Sparano, Jeff Ireland and Dan Henning all went on the road together grading quarterbacks and all three of them came to the conclusion that Chad Henne was just as talented as Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco. According to Armando, Bill Parcells merely rubber stamped that evaluation. This fits into other pieces of information I've seen over the years suggesting that Bill Parcells was a lot more anxious about the Long-vs-Ryan decision than Jeff Ireland was, who was in the tank for Jake Long. Already the picking of Jake Long could be criticized on the basis of the Dolphins needing a quarterback and choosing not to pick Matt Ryan, but if the Dolphins also jettison Long with no compensation after only 5 years, that makes it even worse.
What kind of value do you think we could get in a trade for him? I've been expecting this to come. Big Jake seems to think very highly of himself but hasn't been able to stay on the field or be as effective as he used to be for two years now.
slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww that roll Jakey......stand your ground Irish, dont overpay for him, allocate the money to playmakers instead....
I don't think there's any chance we could get a 1st rounder for Jake Long if we Franchise him. I just can't envision any team taking on that contract knowing that if they want to keep him beyond 2013 they're going to have to offer a huge long term contract. I'd say low 2nd rounder is the best we should expect.
It would most likely be a top tier team that trades for him, i dont think a low 1st would be out of the question..... Like take Green Bay for instance, their LT sucks and A-Rodg got pressure all year long from that side...is it worth it for GB to give up say #28-#32 to get Long?? I think so.....hell you could even do one of their receivers and a lower pick....
Another team wouldn't have to take on the 1 year Franchise player salary, unless after we Franchise him, Jake immediately signs the tender. Then we are pretty much stuck with him for a year. If he doesn't, another team could negotiate a long term deal, reach a trade agreement with Miami, if it is other than the standard Franchise player compensation, then a trade and sign takes place.
Considering the injury issues and the fact that GB has gotten by just fine without an elite or even good LT for the past 4 years, I disagree. I don't think they would part with their 1st round pick and a good chunk of their salary cap.
Good point. But I still don't think a team would be willing to part with a 1st round pick for an injury prone LT who would be commanding at least 8-9 million dollars per year on at least a 5 year contract.
Any idea about GB's salary cap situation? They generally don't go for top dollar big names in free agency, so personally I wouldn't expect it with Long either, unless they are way under the cap. Then I guess it is possible. They have also allocated a lot of high draft picks recently toward the tackle position. Marshall Newhouse also showed a lot of improvement from 2011 to 2012. PFF rated him 54th among OTs pass blocking in 2011 but improved to 32nd in 2012. They may as likely feel he is developing sufficiently well.
Green Bay wouldn't pay Jake Long the kind of money he would get, never mind give up a draft pick for him.
Here's another thought. I don't think any of the playoff teams think they were eliminated because of poor LT play, or even Line play. In fact, most teams that were eliminated from the playoffs are probably placing majority of the blame on their defense considering that in the last 6 playoff games, ALL team totals went over except for the Pats(ironically). That's 11 of the 12 teams The Colts are the one team I can think of that couldn't protect the QB in their playoff game. And I'm confident they aren't a team that would give up a first round pick and a huge salary for Jake Long. Non playoff teams are usually unwilling to part with Draft Picks AND especially take on big contracts. Prior to the end of the season, I would've thought the Bears could use Jake Long. But now, with the way the end of their season played out, I doubt they actually believe they're a LT away from contending.
If he'd sign for 5 yrs at an average of 8-9 mill a year, I think we'd resign him ourselves. Sounds like he is wanting quite a lot more. Something that is an increase from his rookie contract, which averaged 11.55 mill over 5 yrs. If we do not Franchise him or resign him, and he signs with another team, we will most likely get a 3rd round compensatory pick in 2014. Depending on whom we sign in free agency too. If our gains and losses in free agency is a net loss in number of players, I think a 3rd round comp pick for the former #1 overall would be likely. If it is a net gain, but none of the same dollar amount as Long gets, or close, it could be a lower round comp pick like a 4th or 5th. This year, we may get a decent comp pick for Langford.
I agree. I wouldn't mind getting him back at 5 year/ 40-45 million. But if it is 5 year/55 million.....then I take the 3rd round compensatory if I'm Ireland
Jets are dumping Revis because of his salary cap hit, I'd be shocked if they traded him for another big contract.
exactly, they couldn't afford Long. Revis holds much more value for that team than Long would. Rexy-baby's whole defense is predicated on Revis shutting down one part of the field. If Revis walks (which I think he does) their defense will be terrible. It will be interesting to see what Revis commands on the market. If he was only asking for top CB money, I'd at least take a look at him, because if he's able to come back from injury, he would make our defense elite. But I heard this morning he's looking for top NFL-type contract (i.e, one of the highest paid players in the league, not just highest paid CB). I can't imagine he'll get it after that injury.
I might not think Ireland is a good NFL GM, but I have no problem with him low balling Long. Long has not played like one of the best tackles in the NFL over the past two years. He certainly shouldn't be paid as if he is still the player he was during his first three years in the league. If Long will only sign with the Dolphins if he is paid like he is still one of the best players in the NFL. Ireland and the Dolphins should thank him for his play over the last five years and go find another LT to replace Long.
Are Dolphins really "low-balling" their free agents? http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/...their-own-free-agents-20130123,0,529810.story
Just to add to this: They were also so convinced that Long was our long term answer at LT that they locked him up before the draft even begun. They did not even allow other teams to try to trade up for their pick on draft day. They were all in on Long. Whether or not they should of picked Ryan instead is not the point. The fact is they massivily overpayed for Long and he did not live up to the expectations they placed on him and now it appears as if he is making negotions difficult and a long term signing unlikely. If we do franchise him and find a trade partner for him that is really nothing more the damage control. I think you have to say at this point that he was a bad choice for #1 overall. People use to defend this pick saying it was a very safe pick and that has turned out to be wrong.
I think Ireland is wise by taking the stance he is with some of our free agents. This year a new rule is being implemented which allows a 3 day window before free agency starts for agents to start negotiating with other teams. The players themselves cannot have any contact or be worked out, and no contract can officially be signed before free agency begins. But this will allow the agents for guys like Long, Smith, Hartline, etc. to get an idea of their market value and allow Ireland more of an opportunity to make his pitch if he cares to.
Assuming that's true, then IMO they went about it wrong. Going on the road together means private workouts, pro days, etc to me. The main deciding factor before ranking those QBs should have been going over their game tapes with a fine tooth comb for the past 2 seasons. I remember Frank Coyle telling me before the 2008 draft: "Miami just has to take Matt Ryan, if they are smart. He's just got "it". He's a legit Franchise QB. You have to get the QB position solved before anything else, when you have the chance. Miami needs a QB. You don't tie up the kind of cap it takes to sign the #1 overall pick on an OT when you have a QB also worthy of going #1 overall available, especially considering QB is a need. Just watch their game tapes. Matt Ryan is the class of this group of QBs." Words to that effect anyway. Too long ago to give a verbatim quote.
Those two things aren't really mutually exclusive. All of them could easily have watched all the tapes beforehand, or even watched the tapes while on the road. I think we're making assumptions if we're saying they came to their conclusions based on private workouts and not based on tape. Not good assumptions either, IMO. They might've been wrong but that doesn't mean the process was incorrect.
Just the way it was worded, led me to think their road trip was the deciding factor. If so, then their tape watching must have left them thinking all 3 QBs were closely bunched. Had their tape evaluations been right, then it is hard for me to believe there is anything they could have seen in a workout that would elevate Henne to Ryan's level on their draft board.
I don't think Long gets the money he thinks he is going to get. He under preformed in his contact year and he has been injured year after year. I know he is going to be paid, but I can see everbody "lowballing" him. I don't see him getting the kind of money he expects.
