Is Ryan Tannehill Going to Become a Franchise QB?

I know. I was never much of Henne fan, but I ended up defending him against the extremists that painted him as the worst QB in the league and wanted to spend millions (and wreck our cap) to bring in QBs who were in reality no better than what we had. But I never had him as a franchise QB. If anything he performed slightly better than I had projected him to perform during his draft. That's how low my opinion of his potential was. But my opinion was based on evaluating his play. I hate the implication that I must be being swept up by emotion and hope if I think RT has very good odds of becoming a franchise QB. The argument that if I'm not pointing to some stat that I'm not being objective. That I'm incapable of making an objective analysis.

 

His reads do need to be faster, but that will only come with experience and work. People are comparing him to players who are non-rookies and/or have years more experience. They look at CKap, whom I loved as a prospect from the beginning, but that's not a fair comparison. He's been in basically the same type of offense since HS. (He wasn't in the pistol, but he was running the same zone reads). And he had a year to acclimate to NFL speed. You give RT time to develop and his reads and read speed will only improve. I think that if you give him three years then the odds are very good that he'll be as good or better than Matt Ryan is now (after what, 5 years?). By 5 years, RT's potential is as high as player in the league. Hopefully, the team is successful enough that Philbin and the basic offensive system stays consistent during that time. IMO that greatly increases a QB's probability of success.

 

Thhat was always. Point Henne wasnt great but we were Henne lovers ccause didnt thin Orton was a major upgrade. At the right price is goodd 4 comp but wasnt sign better overall.

I call it desparation. People got ideas how it should have been fixed and by whom, RT wasnt it and then his stats arent a certain # or anothr team w a rook went farther and panic sets in

 

I certainly saw that in the first half of the season. Luck was way ahead when it came to knowing when to run, when to throw it away, etc. But that gap closed during the second half of the season. At that point the biggest difference was simply that Luck had players that would take the same quality of play you were getting from RT and make a bigger play out of it. The other difference was that Luck was more inaccurate and threw into double coverage more often during that stretch. That was why RT actually had better stats during that time.

 

Sure. And considering his other options on a given play were Bess and Legedudu/Gaffney/Nick Mangold's sister its not hard to see why he'd wait a little long either.

 

Every team should be looking at adding a quarterback every year. The key is to not alienate your current starter, who I assume is getting the job done, while investing in a new one. I think Ron Wolf would agree.

 

He has some serious issues.

 

It doesn't help that his surrounding cast was dismantled with his #2-4 receivers and starting TE all going on IR.

 

Shouright, you keep saying Tannehill was slow in determining if his first read would be open quick enough and consequently that cause some of his struggles. However you must also point out the following:

His first read was probably either Harline or Bess, which are players who rely on guile and smart route running to be productive. Those types of players do not get open quick, they need time to develop a route, or an opportunity to trick their defender.
His first reads were his ONLY reads. The lack of depth in this team's passing game left Ryan needing to give Hartline and/or Bess a little more time to get open, because the 3rd and 4th options were mostly non-existent.
His O-line was inconsistent throughout the year, and that's putting it extremely mildly. His opportunities to read, progress through options, and take off running were much less than those he is being compared to like Kaepernick and Wilson, my virtue of those two having easily top 5 offensive lines.

 

I fail to see where I said ANYTHING of what you just accused me of saying. I only appealed to your good sense in that if you're going to continue to inform everyone that Tannehill was slow in determining if his first read would be an option, and that caused some of his struggles, then you must also acknowledge the other factors that surely contributed to Tannehill having a slow first read.

Having very few reliable options, those options being of the type that require extra time to allow their skillsets to bear fruit, and an O-line that did not give him that time he require, that MUST have had at least a bit of influence in this particular issue. Surely.

 

A question still implies accusation. But for the sake of not going down a semantics rabbit hole with you, i'll amend it to "what you suggested i was insinuating." Better?

As to the rest. IMO i'm not wrong. Hartline specially is not a player that gets open quick. Bess on the underneath routes is certainly what you said, however when asked to run a deeper route, he also needs time to get open. Hartline however certainly needs time to work his talent. He isn't particularly quick, and while not slow, he is definitely not a blower. He gets everything from his guile and smart routes. Asking Hartline to be the go-to guy for a rookie QB is asking a lot of said rookie QB because he is not a physically talented player that will just exploit opponents and give a rookie a quick outlet when he needs it.

The "yeah, but" as you put it do have basis in reality because things are not black and white, there are shades of grey. When you analyse something, you must consider all factors.

It matters because Tannehill knows that outside of his first read, he has nothing reliable to go to. So with that in the back of your mind, surely you're going to give your first read a little more time to work with. That he lacks the experience to make quicker decisions is certainly true, however the other factors are also pertinent.

 

That has little to do with his piss-poor footwork.

 

It also does not mean they are untrue.

I am inventing nothing. You attribute Tannehill's slow decision making when it comes to his first read simply to his lack of experience. I understand this is true, but i also see that there are other factors to it as well. It's simple.

 

I think he's always had problems.

 

They are not always present because some rookie QBs like Wilson, RG3, 2nd year rookie Kaepernick, have the good fortune of coming into teams with plenty of talent. They still show the same rookie tendencies that Tannehill shows, however due to the talent around, they are less pronounced, less noticeable and have less opportunities to present themselves. Also those rookie tendencies are offset by the positive production superior talent brings.

Tannehill neither has superior talent to mitigate his rookie tendencies, nor those he have it to offset them.

 

See him the year before.

 

Stafford's accuracy issues are what would bother me, alot of QBs could be more technically sound yet throw a much better ball than Matt.

Not sure he will ever be more than a poor mans Jay Cutler.

 

I thought RT's reads were actually very fast compared to most rookies and about as fast as many vets. The only ones who were faster had years more practice making those reads. You saw it early on in the year when teams were blitzing him more. He was getting the ball out very quickly. Teams adjusted by not blitzing as much and taking away that first read. Our receiving targets weren't getting that quick separation very often so RT had to hold the ball longer. IMO it's simplistic to claim he made his reads too slowly. Our WRs and the opponents were a factor in that where even if RT were the fastest in the league at making his first read, it wouldn't have made a difference. It was on him to adjust and once the leg brace was removed you saw that he did. When teams would sit back in coverage and take away his first couple of reads he often made them pay by gaining the first down on his own. This is part of why I have so much confidence in his potential to become a franchise QB. His reads are already very fast and should improve with experience. And he has shown the ability to understand what teams are trying to do and has the ability to adjust. That was one thing I didn't see in Henne. He was good enough in some areas, but lacked the talent to adjust to different styles when the D was good enough to take things away. It's also why this stat emphasis is so misplaced. It lacks context and shows very little understanding of what's happening on the field.

 

Id have no problem with taking Glennon in the 3rd if he is still there.
Or Rodgers in the 6th or 7th.

 

You don't think that, based on what exactly?

Part of the problem a QB has adjusting to the speed of the NFL is because they are also trying to learn the offense at the same time. Tannehill, of course, in a scenario so rare it dominated talk at camp, already knew the offense better than every other player, including his surrounding talent. Hell, Hartline didn't really get much of a chance to practice in this new offense because of his issues this offseason. My god, there wasn't even an awkward period before the OC learned about the type of player and person his rookie QB was.

You watched the games. You saw the difficulty Hartline & Bess had getting separation. You know those were his only two real options on any given play. I think what you're mistaking for slow reads is really more about he made the reads and is waiting for one of his receivers to be an actual target.

 

I think another major plus to having Philbin, is that his offense can be successful with a prototype QB. Meaning it can be run with a QB that meets certain requirements that can be found on QBs that may not be found in the first 4 rounds. Look at Matt Flynn & Pat Devlin who were 7th rd and UDFA respectively.

That means we should be able to find a guy or two to look good enough to get an extra pick here and there.

 

I think that his receivers rarely getting quick separation was a huge factor. Bess and Bush (once we started using him as a receiver) are the only players we have that IMO were capable of getting quick separation. Matthews, IMO, could develop into another one, but he and every player outside of RT had really limited experience in the offense. I think that many of the alleged slow reads by RT were really the result of RT changing the play and having his targets make slow (or incorrect) adjustments.

 

I specifically said "quick separation". I like Hartline and regularly defend him, but that is not one of his strengths. His strengths are using route running to set up the CB and using his hands to gain an advantage just before the ball arrives. He has great body control and is good at catching the ball in traffic. He's good at drawing PI penalties and getting deep when the CB tried to overplay the comeback or out. None of that makes him good at getting quick separation.

 

Yes, i think Tannehill has made plenty of rookie mistakes. But I don't see habitual mistakes or deficiencies. I'm not saying the he has the speed of the game 100% down, but he's not as bad as you make him out to be.

Furthermore, Hartline does not lead the league in almost any positive statistical category and is often middle of the road to awful for #1 WRs. That's been proven to you time and again. As for trying something in reverse, do you feel like there is anything Bess & Hartline can't do? I would take at least 25 different #1 WRs over Hartline. Most people understand our biggest hole right now is WR.

And you still didn't answer my question.

 

We did run a ton of routes that relied on quick separation? That's actually a staple of the WCO. Players like Welker, Wallace, Cruz, Amendola, Jennings, come to mind immediately, but there are hosts of others, just not that many on our team. And none that knew the offense as well as RT.

 

BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Wow Shouright, i haven't laughed like that in a very long time. Thank you.

 

That thread is pointless. It doesn't tell us anything significant. The stats that have significance at all, show our starting WRs to be middle of the road. You'll recall, I said:

As receivers Bess & Hartline are bottom of the list for their respective positions. You refusing to acknowledge that is starting to prove your agenda.

And the Bess & Hartline carried Tannehill this year is just about the most ridiculous thing ever said on these boards and has been disproved repeatedly. If it were true, then Tannehill is the worst QB in the league.

 

I hadn't even seen that Shouright post since he's on ignore, but wow, that is just a ridiculous statement.