Of course the buck stops somewhere. There is somebody in charge. In this case, Ireland is in charge of personnell. He has the final call on who gets drafted and signed. If we don;t draft or sign enough good players, what "allocation of resources" is going to fix the problem? and Ireland might not have the authority to fire the scouting staff (although I bet he does as VP of football ops), but if he feels a scout is not doing a good job, and thus his decisions are suffering based on the information provided by the scout, then it's his repsonsibility to go to Ross and explain why we need a new scout. If he chooses not to do that, and we continue to make the same mistakes, then it's his fault. You seemingly want to absolve Ireland of all responsibility and I don;t know why. If you think he's done a good job, fine, but just say that.
I meant to say Ireland is good at shifitng blame away from him. Not you. Sorry about that. And there is no way Ross, an admitted football novice, is putting a process together for how players are scouted, drafted and signed.
Tannehill has to be good. Something he isn't. Vernon was a special teams specialist. Martin was not good. Fa- lets get rid of our best wr and not even try to replace him in FA or the draft.
Fixed. And yet we have more draft gurus here than I can count. Many of them feel comfortable calling the GM incompetent and demanding the GM's head. Legends in their own minds.
Maybe identifying where the process has failed then fixing that problem? The failure could very well be Jeff Ireland's final decision, but it could just as likely be the information he has to make that decision. How do you know he is choosing to, or choosing not to do that? We have no idea of what has happened. We have no idea if Jeff Ireland has spelled out everything that needs to be done, and whether that is being executed or what. No, I don't want to absolve anyone. I'm just acknowledging that I don't have enough information to form an opinion. I do also think its prudent to keep in mind that Jeff Ireland really just gained this level of responsibility a couple of years ago. Certainly its conceivable to believe that if he's made mistakes, that those can be rectified.
Thoughts after listening to entire press conference: Someone already touched on it, but I'm just not sure how Stephen Ross can make the comment that he was handed a situation, a situation he describes as not good, but then retains the GM from that failed regime. Ross should have taken more time to explain his reasoning for retaining Ireland. He has to know this is arguably the biggest grievance amongst fans. Either that or he is very out of touch. So, ok, he's decided to retain Ireland. Maybe most of us fans are wrong and Ross has very good reasons for retaining Ireland. So explain to us the reasoning. He didn't do a good enough job there, IMHO. I like that Ross says he is accepting responsibility for this team going forward, but also that he said he wouldn't call shots on who is drafted, signed, etc. A win / win for us Ireland "haters" is that based on Ross's comments today one of 2 scenarios is likely to play out - 1. Ireland proves us doubters wrong, and the team improves based on a strong free agency and/or draft. (despite my opinion on Ireland I'm really pulling for option 1) 2. The team falters, fails to improve, or gets worse and Ross will have a really difficult time justifying the continued employment of Jeff Ireland. 3. There is always the chance that the team goes 8-8 and Ireland is retained despite a continued poor/mediocre track record in free agency and the draft. That would be absolute worst case scenario, IMHO.
Stephen Ross absolutely has to be involved in the process. The owner ceding all authority to one employee is what set back this franchise for so long.
Like I said, you wanted a speech where he tells us, "heads are gonna role, if goals aren't met!!!!!!" How do you know they won't? Why do you assume changes won't happen if he don't make the playoffs this coming year? Do you consider blowing up and reorganizing the power structure, nothing? Do you consider firing the coaches and bringing in a new team with a 180degree different approach, nothing? Of course changes will happen, and they'll happen at GM if the goals aren't met this year. He clearly believes in the coach and QB, so if we fail that leaves????? I think its just time to admit, that you weren't gonna be happy unless he said Ireland's head is on a stake outside the stadium.
Ross said in the PC that he shouldn't be involved in who is signed, drafetd or plays, so why would he be invovled with putting together the scouting process? I'm sure Ireland has a budget, but I imagine he spends within it as he wishes and if he needs more, he goes to Ross and explains why.
I like the way you put it. Ross didn't do a great job of explaining why he thinks Ireland has done a good job. I appreciate that he's intelligent and hard working, but why is he being retained for this specific job? There were ways to answer that without going into details about what our plan is for the off season. Also, I wish Ross would've described what he has done to learn about the football side so that he is confident he has evaluated Ireland properly. Who has talked to?
I don't really agree with this. I think ceding all authority to the wrong employee(s) was the problem. I can't imagine Robert Kraft has his hands in any of the football processes in New England. And I imagine the same is true for many of the successful teams.
I think he is smart for not going there. Almost nothing he could have said would have made anyone happy. They would have just called him an idiot. What he did do was create an illusion of stability. Which, imo, is a good thing.
You're un numbered #3 is exactly what scares me...Ireland hasn't done a bad job by any means...but he hasn't been showing that he has that extra something to get us along. I wont start listing grievances and rants...but we all know theyre there. I still hope he comes around (pulling hard for #1 as you put it)...but there has to be some reasonable doubt in everyones mind. I'd say I'll defend Ireland...but he needs to have his picks really step up this year or knock it out this offseason. Another 6-10 to 8-8 season is not enough. Edit: I suck at grammar and spelling.
Not in those words, but yes it would be nice if Ross said the GM of the football team will be accountable for performance. Ross said he himself will be accountable, but didn't really say much about Ireland. And I worry that Ross thinks that he "has his coach and QB" so everything else will just fall into place. Not if the guy evaluating talent doesn't do a good enough job.
Because its largely an administrative process. Stephen Ross isn't some joker off the streets. This guy is one of the premier real estate developers in the world. I have a lot more confidence in him to evaluate and put together administrative processes than I do most people, including football guys. If you look at the teams in this league that have enjoyed consistent success, ownership has a heavy hand in driving a lot of it.
Thats true, and probably why the Patriots were awful until the found Belichick, and likely will be awful after he leaves. What in the world is Kraft going to do after Belichick retires? Hope that he finds the next Belichick? Even finding the right guy to give all authority to, you really are playing with fire, and it turns out bad a lot more often than it does good.
Jeff Ireland should absolutely be held accountable for his performance. The issue for us here is parsing through everything and actually getting a clear picture of what Ireland's performance has entailed?
I've heard that argument for 6 yrs now and frankly it is bunk. How many teams did not make it to the playoffs? How many teams are drafting Top 10? All run by "pros", and yet they are not very good, yet time and again that line of thinking is used.
Not an argument/debate worth having anymore, IMHO. He's here for one more year at least. As fans, it's time now for us to decide if one more year of failed results will be enough for those who continue to support him to lose faith. Or what kind of improvement will be enough for those of us who don't believe in Ireland to come around on the guy. Being in the latter camp, I don't even necessarily need playoffs to change my tune a bit. But for me, I'd need to see a winning season (9-7 or better) and see draft picks and / or free agents past and future contribute to that improvement.
If we went 10-6 and missed the playoffs by tie breakers, then ok. But it's time to make the playoffs. One playoff apparance in ten years. this is Buffalo/Cleveland territory.
Isn't this the last year of Ireland's contract? If so, he'll be held accountable no matter what, whether Ross publicly says so or not.
In all honesty I'm not going to form my opinion on the team's record next season. If the goal is to make the playoffs in 2013, anyone can do that. The question is how does that affect the long-term outlook for the team.
Ross has shown growth this past year. He didn't call a fan and have the fan report Ross' thoughts to the press.
But how can you think improvement should not be an expectation 5 or 3 (depending on how you want to view it) into a GM's tenure? How will you ever hold Ireland accountable if you're never expecting the team to improve? If this were year 1 of his tenure, maybe I could understand your position. Yes, "tomorrow" also matters and you wouldn't want a GM to obviously and blatantly mortgage the future for guaranteed improvement. But I'm not sure how any fan could be ok with another year of no improvement, or worse improvement at this stage.
Honestly I have not been a huge fan of Irelands work thus far. He hasn't been terrible though. Probably a solid "C" if I were grading him. The problem is that in the NFL now there are like 5 or 7 GM jobs available. There have only really been a couple options thrown out by people about GM replacements. People juat assume we can get those top guys..... Why? Its a good thing Peyton was a FA last year and not this because people on here would be trying to trade Tannehil just because Peyton is a FA. You have to know you can get something better than you got.
I don't expect improvement when you bring in a rookie QB, a rookie coach, barely spend any money in FA, and have one of the youngest rosters in the league. That doesn't seem like a team thats concerned with wins and losses in the near-term. And this whole 3-5 year thing is a little misguided. One thing I find very telling from Ross' PC today was this: I think its pretty clear that over the past 2 seasons Ross has done a lot of evaluating and essentially hit the reset button. And IMO Ross has a lot more control over the process than we like to believe.
Look at the Jets. They essentially mortgaged the franchise for short-term wins, just to sell PSLs. It really isn't that hard to fill up the roster with talent. The challenge is doing so in a sustainable manner.
A team should always be considered with wins/losses. Colts, Redskins, and Seahawks and before them Falcons, and even our Miami Dolphins proved that turnarounds can happen fast. There is no reason, in my mind for any NFL team to not expect improvement from one year to the next. And how do you excuse any of Jeff Ireland's tenure just because Ross wasn't as involved in previous years? That makes no sense whatsoever to me.
The problem with that line of thinking is that this team could drastically improve but given the fact we have to play the Patriots twice, along with a much tougher projected schedule and still only finish 9-7. If that were to happen, it wouldn't be fair to pin that on Ireland, IMHO if he had a great draft and free agency.
Does anyone credit Bruce Allen with the Redskins turnaround??? Did anyone consider Allen a good GM before this season? I have no problem blaming the Miami Dolphins as a whole for their record. I just don't know how it can be pinned on one guy, when we don't know how exactly things are operating. Because Jeff Ireland may not have had control over the process? He still may not have total control over the process.
If it has paid off in a Super Bowl then I'm sure they would've felt it was well worth it. The Jets biggest issue was fully commiting to Sanchez. Had they had better QB play, they might have gotten to the SB. You only get so many chances to really contend in any professional sport so you make the most of them. It's why I can't really fault RGIII for wanting to play or Shanny for playing him. How many opportunities are you really going to get to have a home playoff team and potentially make the SB? It's also why the Washington Nationals were rightly pilloried for the Strasburg shutdown. They may never make the playoffs again yet they chose extreme caution in hopes for a future that might never come. You can build a team for sustained success while still going for it in any given year. Particularly for us, we have a ton of cap room. There is no reason not to sign one of the receivers when it is such a desparate need
If we can't play better against a tougher schedule than how much could we possibly have improved? You need to be able to beat the good teams eventually.
They reason they extended Sanchez was so that they could reduce his salary cap number in the short-term. They essentially kicked the can down the road. I'm ok with Jennings at the right price. If this team signs Dwayne Bowe or Mike Wallace to $10M+ a year, then they are screwed. I have little to no confidence in either of those guys playing at an all-pro level for the foreseeable future.
But see, that stuff gets in the way of our having a scapegoat, so we have to pretend that we know it.
I recall watching Hard Knocks episode last year regarding the Vontae Davis trade and Ireland was telling coach Philbin what the Colts were offering. Coach Philbin asked Ireland what he was going to do and Ireland responded he thought he was going to do it. That conversation left a clear impression that Ireland does in fact have total control over personnel decisions.
I haave now have little confidence that we will be much better next year . I think MR Ross is not the owner we really need . we now have the BILLS AND JETS both making gm moves and we still Have Ireland and I am not sure if we can land the type of players we need in f/a and its important to add f/ agents because we now have our draft picks evaporating or it seems like it ; yet it was one draft pick but we needed that 6 th rd pick if we miss out on the better players this year then the Bills and Jets could very likely pass us by now that they have new gm's but this is my fear
