I wonder if Brandon Marshall and Vontae Davis.....

I don't think anyone disagrees with this. I think the point is that Vontae isn't worth a 2nd round pick, so the trade ultimately is worth it, even if it didn't help in 2012.

 

And if his job is to clear out the underneath routes for Brandon Marshall? Just saying.

If Hartline improved his targets per route run while being our #2, yeah, I'd say he improved big time. But he didn't. There wasn't a better option on the field hence his targets improved. Last year it was Marshall, Hartline and Bess (not necessarily in that order or at the same time). This year it was Bess, Hartline and Nanee to start. Yeah, it's obvious why Hartline got more targets.

Through the first 5 games, our STARTING WR Legadu Nanee had 5 targets. Through 4 games. Hartline didn't magically get better because Marshall was gone. His targets went up because we have crap on the field. If somehow we magically had worse WRs than Nanee and he was our best option, he would have gotten more targets. But nobody would argue that getting rid of Hartline made Nanee better.

 

I'm not trying to convince you of that.

 

Wait, Chicago made the playoffs?

 

If we can't agree on a base for the metric we will use, then there is no use for any more analysis. We just disagree on what is important statistically.

 

If this were the case, then his efficiency should have declined, no? If someone is getting targets simply because there are no better options, shouldn't that players efficiency suffer?

 

I didn't think you were. Just making a blanket statement toward any of the Ireland loyalists who blindly defend his every move, no matter what he does. I'm not totally anti-Ireland, but I'm not a blind loyalist either. I look at everyone of his personnel moves and express my opinion based on it's own merit or lack thereof, as I see it.

 

That's what some of the Ireland loyalists told us since the last game. Andre torched him for every one of his 12 catches. The 2 picks were gift wrapped room service picks that even the Nolan Carrolls of the world could have made. They just fell into Vontae's hands by sheer luck.

It must part of a conspiracy to make Ireland look stupid for trading him.

 

Are sure they are Ireland loyalists? They could have easily been Vontae haters.

 

I agree with you.

 

I do not recall the people who were hurrahing the trade, making statements about their hate for Vontae in the months leading up to it.

 

As a Vontae homer, there are some Vontae haters out there.

 

This seems very premature considering calling what you've done thus far analysis is rather generous.

 

Me, I was one. I was for the trade before being for the trade was cool.

 

You said we should trade him for months before he was actually traded?

 

When Bill Polian started going on about the Colts trading a 2nd for an established player and someone suggested it was Davis and I was pretty enthusiastic about it.

 

I gave you a way out......

Golf Clap.

What I did was an actual analysis. You know...get numbers, create a formula for expectation (a simple one you didn't understand), and gave the results. You read a stat and repeated it. Now, you knew that, but decided to get your troll on anyway.

I guess I will accept your unconditional surrender on this issue. Congratulations to all of us that know how to use a calculator.

 

No, what we left off at was you came up with some obtuse composite statistic, and then you tried to justify it by citing a bunch of websites that supposedly use it which were all verified to do no such thing. Then you made pretty much that exact calculator jibe, and somehow that was satisfying to you.

Please, by all means. Have at it. Show me where I'm wrong. Do it as embarrassingly as you can muster. Point out why what I mentioned is wrong and bad, and why what, usability? was it is the uncontroversial truth.

Just quit posturing about having an argument and actually make one.

 

HTML:

One shouldn't hinge an anlaysis of a player on something like that because he can change, but I think one troubling sign of Davis was that he never really improved since college, where he was overhyped as a prospect to begin with.

 

You are saying he improved by staying the same? Seriously?

Ok I'll play. His efficiency was down from 2010 when he caught 59% of the balls thrown his way

 

Doing roughly the same thing under harder circumstances to replicate it is clearly an improvement. Especially when you include background knowledge of what that actually involves in these circumstances.

 

Good ol' Disgustipate.

 

I dont think he improved. I think he is as efficient this season as he was last. The only difference is that has been given more opportunity.

Right, but while less % of his targets were caught, his yards per target was essentially the same.

 

Oh ok. I misread your post then. We agree!

Again, we agree!

 

Your memory of that thread is something else. Or should I say "delusion".

Damn near everybody else remembers that thread differently, but what matters is what you believe ...right? Because you know everything, and are always right.

If I feel like it, and have time, I will do that again for those that actually care to learn something.

 

PFT: Vontae Davis trade a better deal than expected for Colts

And:

 

On what planet did Vontae Davis almost go to the Pro Bowl?