no he's actually saying Ireland was VERY INVOLVED in the first 3 years he was here, and is at least 50% culpable for the mess. The last 2 years he's 100% responsible.
wasn't sure if this would be a ireland thread or a thread about our streak of 4 losing seasons but i guess were going for year 5 now if were keeping ireland
Do you really have that small a comprehension ability to not answer the simple question I posed? Furthermore, you keep repeating the same ridiculous question over and over and over "what the hell do you think he was doing, getting coffee?" blah blah blah, so how about for once you answer your own stupid questions rather than repeating them ad nauseam. Tell us EXACTLY what you know Ireland was and wasn't doing and was or wasn't responsible for.
"Involved" with what exactly? give me specifics. Whose system was it? Whose blueprint was it? Whose vision of the team was it? For what offensive coordinator and scheme did Ireland, Gaine, and scouting staff have to find players for? For what head coach did they have to find players for? Do you know if the initial coaching staff failed in their job to properly develop players? You don't know what the **** he's culpable for so for you to think you actually know is nothing but utter and pure arrogance.
He was working for Parcells and his job was to find players who fit Parcells' philosophy. I assume that with Parcells gone he is free to build the team how he sees fit and thus far it seems to be very different from what Parcells was aiming for.
I think one fair metric to grade him by is to look at the players he has drafted and and are on other teams and how they are doing on them. If he was finding talent and the staff was not using it correctly, one would think other coachs would snatch them up and develop them on the cheap.
That makes some sense, but at the same time I believe you have to take it with a grain of salt b/c the type of players Ireland and his staff were asked to scout for might not have properly suited his/their strengths. He could've very well been not as good of a talent assessor for Henning's outdated scheme, where as finding personnel for Philbin & Sherman could actually be a strong suit. It'll certainly be interesting to see how it plays out.
What are the odds that the owner's personal consultant was the GM who gave Ireland his 1st job and left KC in shambles?
To be fair, everybody was wrong about Aaron Curry. I defy anyone to show proof of predicting him to be a bust before the 2009 draft. Tyson Jackson was a huge reach in the top 5 of the 1st. He was expected to be a decent workmanlike player, along the lines of a Marcus Spears and after a bad rookie season, that is what he has basically been.
I dunno, maybe. I don't really keep track of whom I usually agree with or not, tbh. I look at every personnel decision on it's own merit or lack thereof, IMO. Sometimes I'm gonna agree with the move and sometimes not. Seems like most folks are either constantly pro or anti when it comes to Ireland.
maybe so. But if defending Long, Vontae, Odrick Pouncey and Tannehill is hard can u imagine if we has taken a guy like Curry, Gholston, McFadden etc would be?
I was ok with drafting all of them. Not trading them away and cutting into our depth at a critical position, such as with Davis.
We will never know that. He had the GM title so he's responsible. If you want to make excuses that he was finding players for Parcells well his first draft without Parcells in 2011 sucked outside of Pouncey. Do you have any other excuses?
but at what point do you finally say enough is enough with Vontae who did little to no progressing since year one and then the crap he pulled last year through this year's preseason?
That's fantasy land stuff right there. Ireland had been part of the Parcells system since 2003, that's all he knows. He's the first to admit that Parcells taught him everything he knows so now he's going to magically drop all of that and succeed with the west coast offense. Don't be ridiculous.
Yeah ok. When all else fails use the default "he had the GM title" excuse. LOL. Seriously, are you actually this naive to believe it wasn't Parcells' team through and through or are you just pretending? I'll take a potential HOF center and a few extra contributors during a lame duck HC/OC year while also being without a 2nd rounder.
I didn't realize Smith showed up to practice drunk and got suspended for a game for it, then unprofessionally showed up to camp out of shape and undedicated, made excuses to coach Philbin to get off the field during practice, and for an encore followed it up with 2 boneheaded 15 yard penalties during preseason. How do you turn a blind eye to that type of stuff? At least Smith displayed a modicum of professionalism, desire, and dedication during the offseason to earn more trust.
It was Parcells' team but he was working from the information that Ireland was giving him. Parcells never traveled to scout anyone other than Pat White at the Senior Bowl. I'm sure Ireland wrote detailed information and scouting reports for every single draft eligible player and Parcells made the decisions from the info that Ireland handed to him.
That's entirely false. Parcells was constantly watching film and scouting players. .... and here's a quote from Joe Rose on Parcells & the draft philosophy: ... and then this Armando comment about Parcells:
Don't waste you're time. The hurdles of Pasqualoni, Henning, Parcells and Sparano were too severe for anyone to overcome. Obviously Ireland was the victim in all of this.
Parcells was the first one that would say that Ireland had the final say. Again, Ireland wasn't sitting around doing nothing, he and Parcells made the decisions together. You're not going to pay Ireland 3 million dollars not to be in on the decisions.
You can't prove this. I have a source that says Ireland makes a great latte and knows the best spot for apple fritters in Miami. Both are Parcells favorites, and he honed his skills for both during his internship.
I'm just going by the bottom line. What we seen on the field in regular season games. Vontae is still young and not mentally mature, that is true. But he has some innate coverage instincts that are hard to teach. He progressed from 2009 through 2010, then everyone regressed in 2011, but Smith regressed much more that season.
Yes. I feel so sorry for Ireland. To have been surrounded by such incompetent idiots who undermined his finely honed skills to do the best job of talent accrual possible.
That is very true, and I'm not disagreeing with that aspect, but if you're trying to build a team up a certain way, with a certain level of professionalism & accountability, how do accomplish such if you don't apply it to the entire team and instead unfairly allow guys like Vontae a pass simply b/c he possesses more talent than the average player. What message does that send the team?
hey dont take it out on me I am just freaking tired of this merry go around . i am tring like hell to to be a better poster but when i see other teams rebound faster then a nba player i lose my cool.
Sparano was an Oline coach in Dallas, not a head coach. Pasqualoni was a linebacker coach in Dallas, not a DC. Henning had to retire after his Miami failure b/c there are no teams left who haven't already fired him. Parcells didn't run Dallas. If anything, Parcells nearly ruined the young, talented Ireland who was on a very good path in Dallas before Parcells sandbagged him with his outdated philosophies and terrible coaching staff.
If Indy hadn't called us asking about a trade, he'd have remained on the team. Had they not bumped up their offer to a 2nd, he'd have stayed on the team. The message that was sent IMO, was that it was not a priority to Ireland to put the most talented possible team on the field in 2012.
Do you even know what you're trying to say? Are you familiar with this controlling guy name Jerry Jones? Do you understand the difference between head coach and Executive VP of Operations? Ahhh, now I get it. You're one of those Parcells fluffers who would blindly prefer he could do no wrong, and by scapegoating Ireland you can preserve your fluffy feelings for The Tuna.
I didn't get that message WADR, especially not after Philbin's comment of not being sure he saw Vontae in the future plans moving forward. The message I got was, a second rounder is worth more than having a guy for just 2 years whom you don't think you'll be re-signing and who had recently been demoted to backup. How does "talent" supersede the immature, unprofessional, bone-headed stuff he was doing? Besides, it's not only about "winning now", and you & I both know that.
