The Talent Surrounding Ryan Tannehill: Part II

Then you're not sure of anything or you're trolling. Much respect is lost.

 

That doesn't make sense either. Please show us a chart where you make everything up.

 

well, like I said, if you take the number of plays Cruz has made for Eli the past 2 years that appear to be due to Cruz himself, then subtract the number of similar plays Bess has made the past 2 years, incorporate in any variance in number of targets received, you can then add those plays into Tanny's QBR calculator to see how much just one player can influence QBR. But I've watched Cruz and others extensively and I've seen every Bess & Hartline snap to know just how much of a distinct difference is involved.

 

The flaw in the QBR is that it makes the assumption that all the variances that are not controlled by the QB is the same for all QBs and the QBs play is the only variable. That in itself is a false premisis.

Just as an example:

Lets say a QB throws a pass and its incomplete.
It may be it was thrown wrong, bad placement, too hard etc.....
It might of been a bad call from the sideline that got called in
Maybe the WR has butterfingers
Perhaps the defense just read the play and executed better
Maybe the defense didnt execute better but the ref missed the foul that broke up the play
Any of those reasons along with many others could of contributed to why the play was unsucessfull but the QBR does not account for that. It just calculates it as an incomplete pass in the formula.

Its not even that I disagree with Shou that RT needs to improve. I do disagree that his QBR is a sole reflection on his performance. Speaking for myself that is where I disagree with him. Using the QBR to say the cast around RT is fine and he just needs to play better is flawed and inconclusive.

 

You should feel sorry for anyone in this thread subjected to hearing Miami's surrounding talent is no different than Atlanta & New England's.

 

How much? Just tell us already.

 

He already did. There was 28 point swing just on one play.

 

You said it. Those are your words.

 

I agree. Which is why I said QBR isn't a good measure.

What I'm trying to determine is how much each of these things affect the outcome? QBR is impacted by the team's QB, defense, etc.

 

Jesus

This shouldn't be allowed by the TOS. You shouldn't be able to make a thread with this as the summation and then deny you made it.

 

The question is, how much did Cruz contribute to that one play? How much did the QB, or the OL contribute? How much of it was dictated by the ability of the opponent?

 

Look, the only quantifier you included was "in terms of the Miami Dolphins' offensive performance". So unless you're doing that crap where you saying Brady and his playmakers and Ryan and his playmakers have no effect on Miamis offense (duh since they aren't on the team), then you are saying exactly what Phins posted.

 

Fine double down. Double the respect lost.

 

Is this supposed to be constructive at all?

 

That would take a lot of data crunching to even come relativily close to concluding.

Im not even sure if there is enough data available to do it with any sort of reliability.

 

I'm not spending hours to statistically quantify something that all of us but one know is true.

Tell you what, meet me half way. I'll add up all of Bess & Hartline's 2012 big plays after the catch that don't involve an unabated TD, all the catches from off target or contested throws, and all the resulting TDs.... and you do the same for Dez & Miles.... and then we'll compare. Granted you'll be doing a lot more work than myself, but I could probably balance out the workload by tacking on how many passes Bess & Hartline miss by not having the same catch radius or vertical ability to haul in slightly off target throws that Dez & Miles can get their hands on.

 

Puhleaze. Is anything you're trying to pull really constructive? i mean seriously why stop there? Prove we exist.

 

My bad I guess you meant:
Contrary to many people's belief, the talent around Ryan Tannehill isn't any worse in terms of the Miami Dolphins' offensive performance than the talent around either Tom Brady or Matt Ryan.

Instead of:
Contrary to many people's belief, the talent around Ryan Tannehill isn't any worse in terms of the Miami Dolphins' offensive performance than the talent around either Tom Brady or Matt Ryan.

But really it is:
Contrary to many people's belief, the talent around Ryan Tannehill isn't any worse in terms of the Miami Dolphins' offensive performance than the talent around either Tom Brady or Matt Ryan.

 

unlike you I dont have a ready made one size fits all answer to that question. How come nobody looked at Tom Brady till the 6th rd of his draft?

 

What happens when the ball is in the receiver's hands is on the receiver, not the Oline, not the QB, and if you'd like to use NY's 2011 defense as an excuse to invalidate Cruz's play, you'd be sorely mistaken. It almost seems like you're trying to argue all receivers are built the same when it comes to making plays after the catch or when the ball is in the air.

Cruz turned a 10 yard completion into a 99 yard TD. There is no disputing it.

 

You realize not even Stringer actually agrees with your premise.

 

You didn't confirm anything and you weren't objective.

 

.... and if you to need in depth statistical analysis to in order to see how Victor Cruz's plethora of playmaking plays improves QBR, then you really don't know anything about football.

 

Yes, very much actually. Otherwise, you wouldn't have a condescending meter or a proclivity to start threads that back up your previously held stances with made up correlations.

 

He's painted himself so far into a corner that he'd argue a one-legged Hartline is no different than a Julio Jones, Cruz, Dez, etc.

 

That is way too subjective have result in any type of reliable result. There are better ways to achieve what we are looking for. As I said earlier in the thread, I think the starting point would be exogenous exits. We have countless instances where a player exited a team mid-season, usually because of injury or suspension. We have very reliable data that tells us how efficient an offense is. Instead of trying to isolate exactly what an individual player does, it would be much better for us to apply the reliable team data we have to situations that meet the criteria we want to isolate. When Team X lost QB Y mid-season, how much less efficient did their offense become?

 

.... like a credible opening post?