Does this change your opinion of Jeff Ireland? it does for me...maybe.

for a 2nd?? no way....

 

Obviously, they do care, otherwise there wouldn't have been as much discussion on it as there's been.

 

Personally, I was always more focused on the schematic fit than on whether or not he was a cancer. My impression was that outside of the one issue in Denver, he was always a hard worker. But in Denver, he stopped working hard when he wanted out. IMO that was the incident that would make him a cancer. You can't have a guy slacking off in practice and punting the ball away when the whole team is trying to work. So if he told me he wanted out of here, I would be concerned that he could return to that type of behavior.

 

Thank you for being honest about it.

 

Trading away your best WR and not doing anything to fill this need is what I saw Ireland do. You can state that he tried to do this or he tried to do that to trade for a WR, but he didn't do it. That is all that matters to me and my view of Ireland hasn't changed one bit. I still think he is in over his head as an NFL GM.

 

I think anyone that saw Jeff Ireland tell Peter King that the Dolphins have 4's, 5's and 6's...knows that Jeff Ireland was well aware that the Dolphins receivers unit needed an infusion of talent wherever he could find it.

The criticism isn't that. The criticism is in the final decision making. The criticism is in making the call that even though in theory you don't think it's OK, in practice you do, because you're not doing anything to change the situation after the fact, nor did you do anything to prevent it before the fact.

Jeff Ireland is above all things a disciplined General Manager, and that's a good trait. The problem is he's disciplined to a set of priorities and ideals which might not be be good for a team.

 

Philbin didn't. Ireland did.

 

You've coached professionally for how long?

 

Over the past 2 years, Ross' indecision and Ireland's mere presence has hurt us more than any singular transaction could.

 

I'm not the one saying a coach is wrong to not want a headache like Marshall.

So, your gotcha is silly.

 

So its your contention that Philbin wanted Marshall and Ireland just said **** You Philbin?

 

Marshall is 16th in catch pct this season. Bess and Hartline are 43rd and 44th.

Does anyone here know for sure that is the case? Was substantive proof ever given that BM approached Ireland and said he wanted out of here and demanded that Ireland trade him?

 

But you do say a lot of things that indicate you can pretend to know the thought processes of the coach and GM. When in actuality all you have is a superficial view of things, just like the rest of us.

 

Is it your contention that there is no difference whatsoever between a Head Coach with no authority on the roster feeling so strongly about an elite player that he demanded he be traded, and a Head Coach with no authority on the roster merely assenting to the General Manager's wishes to trade Marshall for some picks?

You don't see any space between those possibilities? Both imply the exact same philosophies and priorities?

 

My contention is the person who does trades is Ireland. How badly Philbin did or did not want him is only speculation. Perhaps he thought if Ireland did trade him, that he'd do a better job of replacing his talent within the WR corps. See? We can each have our own speculation. But to come across like some sort of omnipotent all seeing all knowing type isn't necessary.

 

Blah, blah, blah.

Schmolioot said Philbin was wrong for not wanting to deal with Marshall's locker room behavior, because nothing is more important than talent and there's no such thing as chemistry, let alone it being important. He's arguing with Philbin, not me. So you can jump in the middle of a conversation and look like a fool if you want to, I don't care.

Philbin has coached more than Schmol has. This isn't play calling or talent evaluation we're talking about...this what's better for a coach to deal with his first year....and I take the word of the coach than a lawyer who has yet to be right on these boards.

 

He's saying you don't know what Philbin thinks. And you don't.

 

Do have a link to Philbin saying he didn't want to deal with Marshall in the locker room?

It's funny that people bring up Phil Jackson. Brandon Marshall is the type of player Jackson would try to work with and manage his personality, not trade away. Because above all Jackson knows that talent wins games not the team with the most Boy Scouts.

 

I followed the entire conversation, and as for looking like a fool, that is something of which you have a lot of first hand knowledge.

God damn, you are full of yourself ain't ya? Did Philbin ever come out and say that he did not want to deal with Marshall's personality? As for Schmo having yet to be right, maybe you should look in the mirror before sounding like a jerk. No one here is always right. Not even you.

 

This is true, but we also know that the team would have cut him had Chicago not made an offer. I have a hard time seeing Ireland outright cutting Marshall on his own volition.

 

Which exactly do we evidence for?

Are you saying Philbin is the type of coach that wants a Marshall on his team?

 

Look for a link with video of him **** canning CJ & Davis.

 

We do? Did Ireland come right out and say, "Damn, I am so glad Chicago made a trade offer for Marshall, because otherwise I would have cut him." ?

 

Ireland initiated the Davis trade and then came to Philbin about it.

Insert another token and try again.

 

Stop right there. Thats as compelling and honest as your argument gets.

Although I do love the ole "DO YOU REALLY THINK YOU KNOW BETTER THAN ______"

That one worked wonders for Cam Cameron loyalists.

 

Stephen Ross did, yes.

 

You're right everything is up in the air. We don't know anything. ophilbin probably loves Marshall and other talented players who cause headaches for the coaches. We've seen it all year. Remember how he gave the keys to the franchise to CJ & Vontae Davis. It was awesome.

Oh btw, Schmool didn't argue that it was Philbin's call either:

You should know he didn't, since you thanked that post.

So let's recap, I'm a fool for saying it was Philbin's call, but you're not for agreeing with me on that?

And, I love how, on a forum full of people arguing their points of view, I'm the only one that thinks his own opinions are right. Brilliant.

 

Why was Philbin ok with it? And Ireland didn't initiate the trade, Sport, Indy did.

 

Puhleaze. the only argument you made is "We suck, **** Ireland". That's it. You have literally brought nothing else to the table. You are basically no different than LBsfinest at this point. Bravo.

 

This doesn't really sound like someone who was demanding Marshall be traded.

 

You were implying Philbin went to Ireland and demanded Davis be traded, just like you're claiming the same thing happened with Marshall. But that's not how it went down. In the conversation shown on Hard Knocks, Philbin gave very little input and ultimately ceded the decision to his general manager. When Ireland said he was thinking about pulling the trigger, Philbin jumped on board.

 

Well, Sherlock, I was thanking him for the 2nd part of his post. Since you are concerned about it.

 

Doesn't sound like someone was not demading Marshall be traded. Sounds like coach speak

 

First, it's rich that the guy who defended Cam Cameron and thought he deserved a second year is calling me out as "never being right."

Despite the fact that I think I have been right a few times (calling for Sparano and Henne's heads in 2010), that has nothing whatsoever to do with what we're talking about here.

You believe that there is something magical called "chemistry" that is more important than talent, and I think that's a load of bunk.

If Ireland/Philbin didn't think Marshall was a fit for the offense (and I don;t really see how a top 10 receiver somehow isn't a fit for any offense, but ok) that's not chemistry the likes of which you were proposing was the reason for his ouster.

Your sharing of the 72 team anecdote proved that. Sure, it's a nice story and I'm sure the guys on that team remember it that way, that they fought for each other against all odds, etc. But the simple fact is the Dolphins were the best team in 1971, 1972 and 1973 and were probably the best team in 1974 even though they didn't get to the SB.

And they would have been the best team had they hated each other, had they hated Shula (and some did at the time) because they were absolutely loaded with hall of famers and other outstanding players.

 

No, thats all you choose to read, because the rest proved you wrong. Quite Frankly Francis, I have not said F*** Ireland, or Ireland Sucks once today. So I don't know what exactly you are looking at. You gone full ****** brozie. I haven't seen a legitimate rebuttal out of you today. That, or you just see my screenname post here in the Dolphin Section, and have a stimulus response where you start wailing and flailing like a frightened child.

No worries, I dont take it personal, you are back on your heels today.

 

So what? You're breaking my balls when me and him both assumed it was Philbin's call. That's the point..get it or don't...I don't care anymore.

 

I have given you plenty of rebuttals to which you've just replied with, How many years do we have to suck!!!!!!!!" Its not my responsibility you don't understand that's not an argument.

 

I guess you can read into it what you like, but if you are going to put any stock into what he said you should consider the whole thing. He said he didn't really have any regrets about trading away Marshall. It was reported by two of the more respected members of the local sports press that Philbin wanted Marshall traded. And when asked at the time what the football reasons were for trading Marshall, Philbin said "We thought it was in the best interests of the football team moving forward." I'm pretty sure he includes himself in that "we." http://www.wgntv.com/videogallery/69060939/Sports/Philbin-discusses-Marshall-trade