In Hindsight do you still trade Marshall for Eggnew and a 3rd rounder?

I was the only one that predicted Obama 310+ in that thread. No reason for me to delete that one.

 

So you are saying that the Dolphins haven't been one of the worst teams in the NFL over the past four years, merely one of the unluckiest. Sorry but I think good teams are lucky because they are better than the bad teams. Not because they have more lucky breaks in a game. If luck was all the game was about, I certainly wouldn't be watching football. I watch it for the skill of the players and for the strategy used by the teams to defeat their opponents. I think LUCK has nothing to do with the outcome of a football game and I would question any notion that it can be proven that luck is an important factor in winning and losing football games.

 

For Brian to match Brandon's production, he would have to put up 12 TD's and around 300 yards receiving over the last three games.

Do you believe that is something that could be realistically done by Hartline? Legitimate question.

 

Where did you get 12 touchdowns. Brandon has 9 this season. He had 9 in two season as a Dolphin.

 

Its not a notion. There are mounds of actual evidence. A good starting point would be HERE.

 

My bad, I misread NFL.com, and I needed clarify something. Mea culpa.

So, with that mistake kindly pointed out, allow me to correct my question.

For Brian to match Brandon's production from last year, he would have to put up 5 TD's and around 300 yards receiving over the last three games.

Do you believe that is something that could be realistically done by Hartline? Legitimate question.

 

That was the prediction thread. I made a very long prediction in the Polls thread. It was a pretty long thread that seems to be gone now. My prediction had 4 different outcomes based on turnout. remember it now?

 

I think the 300 yards could be realistically done.

He would need 89 yards and two touchdowns to match Brandon Marshall's 2010 production. He is getting 3 yards more a catch than his 2010 season. He could realistically get over 100 yards and a touchdown to get close.

 

It is silly to say that Hartline is on pace for something. He has had 1 huge game out of 13 which resulted in 253 of his 925 yards on the season. He has had only 2 other games out of 12 that have been over 100 yards, and 6 out of 13 he has been held to 50 yards of less. He is hardly replacing marshall. Excluding the 253 yard game, he is averaging only 56 ypg.

Only goes to show you what a piece of **** GM ireland is.

 

2010? Sure. But not 2011.

FTR, I don't know if all the stuff that BM did was heresay, overblown, or enough to warrant a trade. But if it was for character concerns... Sure, I get that. But, as many people have pointed out in this thread, we didn't get anyone who could have been a suitable replacement for him.

 

I would have liked to at least get a replacement for Hartline. The fact that nothing was done on the GM side was very unfortunate. The fact that no one was coached up or figured in on the coaching side is also very unfortunate.

For all the talk of Philbin's practice report it hasn't so far produced on the field.

I just don't see Miami playing good football only to be thwarted by being slow and not having talent.

 

The thread is still there:

http://www.thephins.com/forums/showthread.php?72817-Election-2012-Polls

Either way, making predictions based on different turnouts isn't really a prediction. Predicting the turnout is the hardest part. Its like making a prediction on an NFL game based on different turnover differentials.

 

Honestly, I don't think WR is our only problem. And, as a fan of Tannehill, I recognize his need to step up, and our defense could use some depth at LB and another pass rusher or two. But the fact that we didn't make a respectable attempt to improve that position.

 

I don't think we made an attempt at all.

 

No I don't. But I also don't think it needs to precisely exact for the point to stick either. Personally, the difference between 1100 yrds-1 td and 1200 yrds and 6 tds is like choosing between death by spears or death by arrows. In the end, we got virtually the same production plus 2x3rd picks for less money & less headaches. When get a better WR in the offseason, we'll have him plus 1100 yrd Hartline and 1000 yrd Bess to go along with him. Where we could have Marshall's production (in Miami) and 500 yrd Hartline and 900 yrd Bess.

 

But they're so efficient!

 

Marshall's lack of Td's here was a huge part in the argument, by some people, that his two seasons here were busts. Hartline gets a pass having only one freaking Td. Amazing!

Hartline would make a great number #3 Wr, and a decent #2 but a Brandon Marshall he is not. Not even close.

 

You sure do stick to your guns, even though you're wrong. How you can still defend the Marshall trade is beyond me. Either way, I can't wait to come up with you're new sig.

 

I've put forth reasoned arguments for not needing Marshall. I've illustrated and backed it up with facts and stats.

You, on the other hand, have basically just herped and derped your way to an opinion on Marshall because...MARSHALL!!!! You are the worst kind of forum troll.

 

Im a troll because the only facts I need I can see with my own two eyes? You can spout all the useless facts that you can make up in your head but they don't hold water. Marshall was traded, we got nothing for him and he's a beast and will be in the pro bowl and is a top 3 receiver. But you're ok with the trade. I notice you didnt respond to my comment about picking a new sig for you. You've only got one more game. I hope you're not thinking of backing out. Dont worry, next year you can blindly defend more stupid moves by this team and predict a super bowl victory if you like.

 

No, he doesn't! He sticks to what he thinks helps his argument. He made a HUGE and I mean HUGE deal out of Marhsall's Td production. Now he is saying his point sticks because of yards. Even after Hartline had that huge game in the begining of the season, he was all over it.

Now that Marshall is totally killing Hartline in every single statistical catagory, it's back to comparing his last season here....

 

There is another poster that after 4 games was saying "see, Hartline is producing the same as Marshall this season...VINDICATION." that argument evolved into a convoluted/diluted addition by subtraction theory.

 

And this should come as a surprise to nobody.

 

Good work.

I was 9 for 9 on my election bets and have the bet slips to prove it. I even got Florida and Virginia right.

 

WTF are you talking about?

I made and am still making a huge deal out of Marshall's lack of TDs. It was 6. I personally don't think there's a whole lot of difference between a WR that gets 1100 yrds and 1 td or a Wr 1200 and 6tds. There's a huge team difference between 6 TDs and 11TDs, but virtually no team difference between 1 td and 6tds when you're talking about you're #1 WR.

Whether the guy scores 1 or 6 tds, he isn't getting the job done. Now if I have to choose between 2 guys not getting the job done, then I'm going to go with the guy that costs me less and isn't a locker room and PR nightmare.

Now I get it, in Ozzy's world 6 is more than 1 and that is all that matters, therefore you go with 6. But I frankly don't give a **** about Ozzy's world.

 

Its a surprise to me.

See, I've taken great pains to say Marshall has been good in Denver or Chicago, just not here. I never started a thread about or argued that Hartline in Miami is as good as Marshall in Chicago.

You'd think astute forum guys like you and Ozzy would know that already. You'd think...

 

You are entitled to your opinion, but it is utterly...utterly...ridiculous. No difference between 1 and 6? That's a joke man. 11 tds is a "great" season. 6 is certainly better than average. 1? Randy Starks got 1 lat year.

Let me ask, who is leading the Dolphins in TDs this year? And how many do they have?

You are using a frozen in time philosophy, and punching numbers on a calculator, assuming Marshall could do no more. And he buried that assumption, with a QB who isn't even in the top 20 for passer rating and yards.

That's not how NFL futures work. Save for Chris CHAMBERS one fluke season, BM in 2 seasons has way out produced every non-Marino era WR by a country mile.

 

That's ridiculous. 6 tds is average for the #1 WR? The year Marshall dropped that turd, that made him 30th in the league. There's only 32 teams Seth. 6TDs from your #1 WR is not good on any level. There is a pass/fail point...and 1 or 6 tds out of your #1 is fail.

And he didn't play for us one season. It was 2 and that first one was only 3 TDs.

And quite frankly, I haven't seen Marshall tear it up int he NFL without Cutler.

 

Andre Johnson has averaged just under 8 TD's a year. He's been to the Pro Bowl 5 times, and will likely be there again this year, even though he only has 3 TD's. A #1 WR does many things, and yes, catch TD's is one of them, but there's a dynamic guys like Johnson and Marshall bring that guys like Hartline and Bess do not. It's not something that can be precisely quantified with statistics either IMO.

 

I know how long he was here.

He's a perennial thousand yd WR. Thats an all-pro trait. There are multiple WRs on NO, NE, GB, and other offense happy teams who have several guys with 6+ TDs. So truth is, there were plenty of #1 Wrs who faired worse TD wise than BM. And not many who faired better yard wise. This year, he's the #2 WR in the league.

If our coaches and team as a whole cannot find the end zone, how is that his fault? What's consistent here? We're not scoring more without him. But he is off scoring more without us in Chicago.

 

I see.

Marshall was just amazing here, and there's just no way to prove it, but trust you he was. The stats, W-L record, offense, defense, STs, coaching staff and players all don't indicate he was great here, he just was.

 

He was not great here. If he was then you're telling me greatness is defined in the difference between 1 TDs and 6TDs. Because that's all that separates him here and Hartline this year.

 

I think he was/is an elite talent. I think you can't only look at one or two seasons and treat that as a complete body of work or the height of his potential. It CLEARLY wasn't.

I think 6 tds are better than 1, so lets agree to disagree.

 

And back to back 1000 yd seasons has not occurred since the Marino era. For us, that's super elite production.

 

I'll tell you what I'm talking about and you just admitted it. It's not ok for Marshall to have 6 Td's and be the #1 option. It is ok for Hartline to have 1 Td and be the #1 option. We get it! And you're asking me wtf I'm talking about?

 

We've lost 4 games by 5 or less and 1 game by 7. Those extra 6 touchdowns that you dont care about could have won those 5 games for us. You honestly have no clue about what you're saying. And why wont you acknowledge our sig bet when I bring it up? If you back out of it, you're a joke and should be banned

 

I never said it was ok for hartline. Stop holding me responsible for your sheer lack of reading comprehension.

I'm saying we don't miss Marshall's ****ty production because we have Hartline producing virtually equally as ****ty. Turn off the narrative in your head that has me touting Hartline, cause its not reality.

 

So now I'm welching on a bet that isn't finished yet? **** you. i haven't talked about the bet with anyone and its been brought up a few times by others.

You weren't even on the boards when we were playing well and the talk of the NFL. At least, I have the stones to be here good and bad.

So, you're saying we aren't ****ty team and would be world beaters if we still had Marshall? Cause not only does that contradict your entire season long stance on the talent of the team, but its also borderline ******ed.

 

For the billionth time, I'm not saying he's not a great receiver. I'm saying he wasn't great for us. His production was **** here. If its not, then Hartline is just as great...its your call.

 

When exactly were we the talk of the nfl? So you had the stones to be here when we were playing good? Do you even read what you write before you click reply? Why would it take stones to be here if the team was playing good? And btw, I'm "here" I just dont post all the time. And no, we are a Sh**ty team. You say the other dude lacks reading comprehension skills, well, you dont seem to have any yourself. When, in my post, did I say we would be world beaters if we had Marshall. I simply pointed out that his 6 td's this year, if they came in each one of the games we lost by 5 or less,might have turned those losses into wins. But, as you said, one touchdown and six touchdowns are the same. So I guess I'm wrong. And you pretty much personally attacked me. You should be banned for a few weeks. I hope a mod reads this.