In Hindsight do you still trade Marshall for Eggnew and a 3rd rounder?

How can you have no idea when its been explained in numerous different ways over 16 pages? I mean at some point you got to start thinking the problem is you, right?

 

My question to those who think the production of Hartline and Bess is adequate: Do you attribute their lack of TD's specifically due to Tannehill's struggles?

Some may disagree, but I do believe there's a correlation between QB YPA and TD's thrown. Rivers, Fitzpatrick, Bradford, Weeden; All have as many completions as Tannehill, all have a lower YPA, all have at least 13 TD passes.

As of now, Tannehill is throwing a TD once every 28 completions. That's the lowest in the NFL min. 200 completions. Is this ALL on him?

 

Is anyone arguing that their production is adequate? I think all anyone is saying is that their production makes up for not having Marshall, who wasn't adequate here either.

 

Marshall was never, ever going to perform like is with the Bears in Miami. He's got mental issues, didn't want to be here, and Miami was never going to throw him the ball 150+ times in Philbin's offense. What he did in 2010 and 2011 was not all that special, and not remotely close to irreplaceable.

If Brian Hartline and Davone Bess were promoted past their competence, there would be some evidence of this. Their production would not be good, or they would be inefficient. This is fundamentally not the case.

 

I think they are saying it's adequate, yes.

 

None of those teams are as good as the Dolphins at scoring touchdowns in the red zone.

Forcing a rookie quarterback to throw aggressively in the red zone probably isn't a recipe for success, even if he had better red zone targets. They've found other ways to get it done.

 

Oh ok. If we can make stuff up, then I want to as well.

I think you secretly wish you grew up in New Jersey.

 

So if they're not as good at scoring in the Red Zone, but have more passing TD's, I'll circle back to my original question; Is this more on Tannehill than the WR's?

Shouldn't more of Tannehill's 227 completions been taken in for TD's? Is it a coincidence?

 

You read these boards. Fineas had a thread about how efficient Bess and Hartline were in comparison to other WR's. There were countless threads about WR's where many people said not drafting or signing one wasn't a big deal, because BHart and Bess were fine. So, no, I'm not making stuff up.

 

This is your opinion. I disagree with it. You have absolutely no way of knowing how effective or ineffective Marshall would be in this offense. What we do know though is that the offense under Philbin has not been as productive as it was under the coaching staff in 2011, when Marshall was a member of the Dolphins.

 

calculator don't lie.

 

The opposite. and I maligned Nate Silver's use of "odds". But his methodology is damn good. I used the exact same one as his to make my statistical analysis. I just used a different set of polls.

BTW, might want to check my predictions in that very thread based on turnout. They were..oh what's the word? Oh that's right...perfect?

Know what I did? I PROJECTED.

 

I guess you're not really interested in the discussion portion of this after all.

 

They shopped him for weeks and just so happened to only get 2-3'su the weekend of his nightclub incident.

Not buying that crock

 

not when it comes to numbers. I already told you that you could very well be correct in the macro sense. I am saying that 2 + 2 is still 4.

 

I agree with you 100%.

 

It was the ultimate buy high and sell low situation. Bad GM'ing any way you slice it.

 

I think in a vacuum, they'd love Brandon Marshall, his skill-set and his physical abilities. They'd love to draft Brandon Marshall. I don't think Jordy Nelson is tremendously different.

I don't think they'd love that Brandon Marshall has been developed, expects, and needs a heavy target workload to be effective. Jordy Nelson they've brought along in a way that he's effective on a lower workload, and that's hugely important. Brandon Marshall needs to be fed the ball, and he'll cuss you out if you don't and be unhappy and ineffective. His least career targets outside of his rookie career were 145. Jordy Nelson was under 100 targets when he went for 1260 yards.

 

Sorry but Philbin hasn't proved anything yet. The team under his direction is actually worst than it was in 2011 in scoring offense and points allowed by the defense. I may be willing to agree with you in a few years if Philbin shows he actually knows what he is doing as a HC in the NFL. Right now though, whether it was completely Ireland's doing, or Philbin told Ireland to trade him. It makes absolutely so sense to trade your best WR, unless you have a viable option to replace him.

I just don't see Bess and Hartline being those viable options. Now if they trade for Nelson in the off season, maybe you and I can get on the same page.

 

Well no, you came back and dropped a lot of what you had been claiming towards the end when the writing was on the wall. You were basically a step removed from Unskewing the polls, and your choices of polling wasn't particularly well informed. How'd that Rasmussen cheer-leading turn out for you?

 

Disgustipate,

I realize that I owe you an apology for a comment I made last week. I stated at the time that you had incorrectly predicted the Dolphins would finish the season with a winning record. I realize now that I was mistaken and it was not you who made that prediction. It was Finascious D, who made that claim and I somehow thought it was you. I sincerely apologize for my statement that you had made the prediction.

 

All misguided, and intentionally misleading. I did no such thing. The thread is there for all to see. Those that choose to, will see that you are lying. All I told you about Rasmussen was that they were the most accurate in 08' and that I liked their methodology.

For you to compare what I did to what "unskewing the polls" did is as intentional a lie as you can tell.

 

I don't think it's inherently a Philbin thing. I think you could find other guys who felt the same way. There are trade-offs you make when you get a guy who is going to demand and need huge target workloads. You can't have other effective receivers with a guy like Brandon Marshall, and it's legitimate not to make that trade-off, not even considering his other issues.

 

I think what finacious d said was ".500 or better gauaranteed". Either way, that wasnt a very wise comment. I have a sig bet with him. I said they wouldn't be close to .500. One more loss to go.

 

I understand your reasoning and I was not a great fan of Marshall and his antics. I just think that as a HC and a GM, you have a responsibility before trading your most productive WR, to ensure that you have another top tier WR who can step in and replace him. Ireland's replacements for Marshall were, Johnson, and Naanee. Johnson didn't last long and Naanee was a complete bust.

You have a rookie QB coming in and yet you have no quality #1 WR he can throw the ball to. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. My complaint isn't as much about trading Marshall as it is the fact that Ireland was so inept at finding a suitable replacement for him. This team has two decent, but not great receivers and that is it. No rookie QB should be forced to deal with such a lack of talent at the WR position, IMO.

 

I thought he predicted they would be above 500, but since you have the bet with him, you would know better than I would. I think the Dolphins will win their next two games, but lose to the Patriots in their last game of the season. So 7-9 is looking to me to be the best they will do this season. Hope you enjoy your new SIG.

 

FinD predicted 8-8. If you look at the team's ratings. He was spot on. Bad luck cost him his prediction. I said 6-10 was likely. I might be right but for the wrong reasons.

FinD was wrong...but he was right in a sense. He had the talent level and capability of the team correct. he was right, and I was wrong. See...that's how you do it Disgustipate.

 

And you're still mistaken. I never said that. Its very effing telling you can't even tell what happened and yet you still speak out like you know what happened.

 

BTW, was the "Polls" thread deleted? I was looking it up to gloat and I can't find it.

 

I remember trying to make a bet with you before the season and you were too chicken to make the bet. So you can claim all you want to that you didn't write what you actually wrote. I don't take anything you write seriously anyway. I was just apologizing to another poster for confusing him with you. I should have realized that no one should be confused with you, since you are one of a kind.

 

I am not sure how you consider it bad luck that the Dolphins are 5-8 right now. They played on the same field as the opposing teams and when the games concluded they had less points in eight of those games.
They lost some close games and they won some close games.

The fact is that this team statistically is worse than the 2011 Dolphins. They have scored less points per game through 13 games than the 2011 team did. The defense has given up more points this year through 13 games than they did through 13 games last year. This against a schedule which most people said before the season was an easy schedule. Right now they are in LAST place in the AFC East.

FinD likes to believe he has some insight into the Dolphins, but he has no more knowledge than the rest of us. He just spends more time on here than most people, so he thinks he can bully those who disagree with him. I doubt if he has actually ever attended a Dolphin home game. He is probably too busy cleaning horse **** in Ocala and can't hop in his car and drive down to attend a game.

 

There are plenty of ways to look at this, but the most obvious one would be fumble-recovery rate.

 

Listen, you did good(for you). I'm proud of you. CK was proud of you for what you did before. You should be happy with that, not mad.

I think having that quality #1 wide receiver could have made Ryan Tannehill look better, but it isn't going to make him better at doing his job or help his development. I think if anything, having a ball-hog wide receiver is going to hurt a young receiver, basically hurting his need to go through progressions, and his development at that.

Alternately, I think the Dolphins offensive talent is such it's made Ryan Tannehill look worse than better talent would have, but it's not hurting his development. He's not holding onto the ball too long, he's not throwing too many bad decisions, etc.

Once you're at that point, you're fine making value decisions. It's acceptable for your GM to not replace Brandon Marshall because doing so right now would not have been a good value. Which I think is pretty clearly the case. Basically your only choice for replacing him was throwing a ****load of money at Vincent Jackson, a guy who has his own behavior issues.

 

I have never believed in the woulda, coulda, shoulda, view in football,or anywhere else for that matter. I believe that the score tells the tale of the game and only losers claim that they would have won if only this or that had happened.

The Rams clearly outplayed the Dolphins earlier in the season, but the Dolphins made the plays to win the game. That is the way the game of football is played. In the games the Dolphins lost, they didn't make the plays and the opposing team did. This has been the story with this team for the past four years. This isn't something that just happened this season.

Good teams find a way to win. Bad teams find a way to lose. The 25-37 record since 2009 and their 5-8 record so far this season says that the Dolphins are a bad team. It doesn't matter how many games they could have won. It only matters how many games they HAVE won.

 

Except its been proven that a lot more goes into winning and losing than "making plays". There is a great deal of luck that factors into things.

 

C'mon man, Stringer has mod powers.

 

I want you to be right about Tannehill. I want him to be the long term answer at the QB position, because if he isn't, we are in for many more years of football like we have experienced the past four years.

I am certainly willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and I'm really not saying he won't be a success in the NFL. I just hope that he is given some quality offensive talent next year and we can actually see if he can develop into a reliable starter. I just think that right now, it is far too early to know if he is going to be a good NFL QB, or not. I have written on here several times that I think it might be 2014 until we know if Tannehill is the answer or not. I Just hope that he shows vast improvement in 2013, compared to 2102. With some quality offensive talent around him, it will be much easier to determine if he is the Dolphins solution at the QB position or not.