Schefter: Tannehill may not be the answer for Dolphins

Again, I don't know anything about him, and thanks for the info. I'm just associating him with the Browns organization which is probably unfair.

 

I take Heckert in a minute

 

Wow... I just dont get some people on this board. Has Tannehill played perfect? NO. Has he been good? NO. Plain and simple. You can leave it at that if you want and go on about your day. Then again you can really look at the situation.

Issue number one. We just got done for the past two years saying that about Henne. I think people are sick of hearing about the supporting cast not helping the QB. The problem is.... Its just the truth. You can say that QB's make WR's all that you want, but the simple truth is that if the WR can't get open in a reasonable amount of time it doesn't matter how good Tannehill or any other QB is.

The next problem. Our running game hasn't been that strong. Wilson gets a ton of help from the running game, takes a ton of pressure of him. We start a lot of drives out with a two yard loss. Lynch doesn't touch the ball and get less than 3 yards for the most part, that helps a lot.

Biggest problem. WE HAVE NO SPEED!! Every down for us is like being in the redzone. Safties don't have to worry about us going over the top. That kills our running game. CB's don't have to worry about getting beat deep so they can press all the time. You can only do so much with 5-8 yard routes. That is why we have seen double moves work like never before, the defense can't believe we actually ran a route past 15 yards. LB's dont worry about our TE's, thats why Reggie Bush doesn't have much success catching the ball out of the backfield, he's shadowed all the time.

All of this puts a rookie QB in a really really tight spot. Throw in a bunch of fickle fans and you have the keys of success to losing. Give the kid a freaking break. IMO he's light years ahead of what I expected mentally. I dont worry about the throw he didn't quite make this year, I worry about him knowing where to go with the ball and see his matchup advantages. IMO he does that better than I exepected. I'm content with him at this point.

 

They also got Peyton Hillis for a song, and he performed well for a while until he burned out. They resisted giving him the big contract which was a positive. Ben Watson was a good signing. As were John Greco, Usama Young, Dimitri Patterson, Sheldon Brown, Chris Gocong and Scott Fujita. Add Juqua Parker to that list.

One could certainly argue they shouldn't have let Kamerion Wimbley or Corey Williams go. But at least those dudes left for money. When we let guys like Donald Thomas, Evan Mathis and Rob Ninkovich shove off, they'd actually played football for us during regular season games and we shoved them off simply because we didn't think they were any good. Kenyon Coleman has been a good player since departing the Browns, and he's not exactly getting paid. I don't know how people feel about Abram Elam or Eric Wright both of whom were allowed to walk. Wright has a 5 year, $38 million contract so he was allowed to walk partially because of contract demands I'm sure, similar to Corey Williams and Kamerion Wimbley.

Could certainly argue Frostee Rucker has been a negative free agent signing overall.

 

Disagree. He outplayed and outpracticed the other QBs. He was not handed the job, imo.

We just lost Garrard to injury. That's what happened. Funny how we've all forgotten this year was lined up to be Garrard starting, not Moore or Tannehill. And Tannehill would have been his understudy. And Moore would have been in KC.

 

They also had Richardson targeted, trading up to get him. This wasn't a 'Let's take what's available' strategy. I find Ireland takes what the current brings downriver, and if he doesn't like it he tries to trade down. To me, that's a guy stocking the shelves, not a guy with a clear, specific vision.

 

Are you content with the GM? It sounds like you are not.

 

I understand that for sure.....but...what I dont get...is...why has the benchmark for rookie QB play, been placed so high all of the sudden? I mean....really...in all of the NFL seasons we have seen rookies play, when have we seen them play like RG3 and Luck?

Understand, I dont think your saying you agree with Shefter, and have only stated the obvious..he hasnt played at the level of RG3 and Luck. Im not expert, but, I have seen enough from Tannehill to be comfortable with him as our starter next season. I am hopeful he is the answer....but..I dont think you can can say for sure either way.

 

Objectively, THill has done about as well as the typical rookie Starting Qb does historically

His problem is a lack of Td's, otherwise I'm mostly happy with the level he has reached.

 

Who gives a s*** what Adam Schefter thinks?! It's just one man's grain-of-salt, ego-inflated opinion from an analyst/writer who divides his time among the entire NFL rather than focusing solely on Miami. I put less stock in his opinion about our players than half the people on this forum.

 

I am in agreement with many here that think Josh Gordon looked good, but (for the people criticizing Ireland for not using a 2nd round pick to get him) wouldn't we have had to use a 1st rd pick in the supplemental draft if we wanted to get above the Browns? If that's the case, would Gordon be worth giving up the 11th-18th pick in your estimation?

 

I believe so. But then, the Dolphins didn't know that. They didn't submit a pick.

 

Am I the half who's opinion you put stock in or the half you don't put stock in? And is it preferred stock or soup stock.

 

Story of Jeffy's approach... not aggressive. Waits for what comes down the river to him.

 

I'm not saying he'll always be below those guys. But it's not a good sign that he is.

 

Very valid point, and one I hadn't considered.

 

Thanks Padre. And...I feel the same way. Luck and RG3 are A Typical, IMO. For one....RG3 has the second leading rusher in the NFL on his team. If you look at Tannehil...how did he look when our Running team was near the tops?

Bought the same time as everyone was sure he was the answer.

 

Sure....but...if they end up being hall of famers....and Tannehill is just a very good QB....being below them isnt a bad thing at all.

 

Actually... I take that back.. there is ONE exception. Jeff Ireland does love talent at running back. Call me crazy but I think being around Walter Payton growing up (and I don't mean as a fan, I mean on the practice field and as a friend of his) impacted Jeffy's feelings about running backs in particular.

If you look at it, Running Back is the ONE position where I see Jeff ireland step away from his usual predictable approach and surprise me.

I was surprised he signed Reggie Bush. And he traded UP to get Daniel Thomas. and he traded UP to get Lamar Miller.

But other than runningback, I think Jeff is a trade-down, see what the river floats past you kind of guy.

 

Well, all I can say is, sit back and watch it happen.

 

Soooo we have our Ken O'Brien then. Great.

 

Probably will be for us, because it'd still mean no Super Bowls.

 

Except they also have Reggie Wayne and Santana Moss, both reliable, clutch receivers. One of them will be in the hall of fame someday. RGIII also has a running game.

It's been 13 games, and while I'm not going to argue that his touchdown production needs to come up, you got your stat wrong.

 

And regret. Like why not move up and get a HoF talent.

 

On the subject of QBs making WRs look good and not the other way around, I can see where this is going IN THEORY...but look at the following plays and then tell me WRs don't make QBs look good at times in pretty important ways on plays that go a long way in actually defining what people think about a new and young QB:

Fast forward to 0:25 seconds in the following video, or don't and just watch it all the way through.

[video=youtube;KCEs-6ZvQ2o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCEs-6ZvQ2o[/video]

Hell just watch the whole damn video. From Play #10 where Aldrick Robinson gets Tecmo open and then shows the speed to run under that RG3 deep pass, to Play #9 which is one of the most ridiculously positive outcomes I've ever seen from such a horrible decision, to Play #8 where RG3 actually fumbles the ball (fumble = bad) but somehow serendipitously Garcon scoops it up and scores with it, to Play #6 where Pierre Garcon rescues a ridiculously-placed ball on a crossing pattern by pirhouetting mid-air, mind blowingly landing on his feet with his balance good enough to immediately make guys miss, and run all the way for the long score, to Play #3 where Santana Moss looks up at the sky easily as long as Brian Hartline did against NE for a ball easily placed with even less accuracy yet still manages to accelerate through and catch it, right down to Play #1 which is only #1 on the list because of the ridiculous catch that Garcon made on another poorly placed ball while staying on his feet and accelerating through to the finish for an 88 yard touchdown.

When have we seen a Miami receiver this year come even CLOSE to making as impressive plays as any of those plays? Even close?

 

...

 

Of course great WR's can make an avg. QB look good just like a great QB can make avg. WR's look good.

True exceptional talent at any position makes those around them better no matter what position it is.

Anyone remember Gino Torretta from the Hurricanes?
Guy won a Heisman trophy throwing jump balls to a super talented group of pass catchers.

Look Tannehill is having some issues in his game.
That said, he also has a lacking supporting cast.
It is a bit of both at this point and that's why I don't think you can even attempt to project this kids true progression at this point.

 

It's not about elite WRs per se. It's the overall tool set that each QB has to work with. RG3 has a slew of guys who can stretch the field, take short passes and create big gains, create separation consistently, catch 50/50 balls in tight coverage, attack every blade of grass on the field regardless of where they are on the field. Tannehill literally has no one who can do any of those things. And his running game isn't even close.

Do I think Tannehill is as talented as RG3? No. But the gap between RT and RG3 pales in comparison to the gap between Washington's offense and Miami's.

 

Fin D: Schefter may not be a worthwhile journalist.

I am more qualified to say that then he is to say anything about any football player. I guarantee I've read more articles in my lifetime then he has studied QBs.

 

Great post man, but I think this play above all others is the most indicative as to what is lacking in our receivers.

YAC YAC YAC

 

On that 88 yard play which was put #1 because it was RG3's first TD as a pro, the only player in Miami that can make a catch like that on the run is Davone Bess. I've seen him do it. But on that play Garcon runs for like an extra 70 yards and a score where Davone Bess would've been caught within 10 yards because he's got 4.65 speed.

And of course that pirhouette play, not even Davone Bess makes that catch and stays on his feet. Not even Bess. And even if he did, see the previous problem, he's caught within 5 yards whereas Garcon takes it an extra 40 yards for the score.

Some of these plays are the plays that are defining RG3's young career, making everyone feel all warm and fuzzy about him, and they're plays that Miami's receivers not only DO NOT make for Ryan Tannehill...but they CAN NOT make for him. As in, just plain not capable.

 

I've brought up a similar line of thought before, though you illustrated it much better. There's been maybe 3 TDs this year (IMO) where the pass catcher really made even an above average (if that) play to score, and all 3 involve TEs (Fasano's recent TD, I think Fasano's 1st TD where he dove into the end zone through/over a guy, and Clay with the TD vs Indianapolis).

I see plenty of other WRs take similar passes (from other rookie QBs) as what our guys get, and make TDs out of them.

 

Look at the play where Hartline caught a well placed pass while he was Tecmo open, he had a 360-degree choice as for how to make a desperately approaching Dashon Goldson miss, and he still gets toe tackled by the barest of touches.

I am perfectly comfortable saying that 85 percent of the rest of the starting WRs in the league make Goldson miss in that situation and score a long TD. It was that much of a blown coverage.

But no, we've got to hear and argue about Ryan Tannehill missing Hartline by 24 inches on a 160 foot throw against the Patriots.

 

I said it yesterday in the game chat. When we threw a 5 yard pass, we gained 5 yards. When the 49ers threw a 5 yard pass, they were picking up 15-20 yards. That is the difference between having or not having play makers.

 

I don't even think he missed him by 24 inches personally. He missed him about as much as he missed Marlon Moore yesterday, which was less than 2 ft between them both IMO.

 

I totally agree with all of what is being said here. And while I'm not knocking Hartline and Bess by any means, to have both near the 1000-yard mark with 2 TD's between them screams possession receivers to me.

 

That said, I truly do believe that Ryan Tannehill is not playing as well as Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin or Russell Wilson. It is what it is.

 

I disagree. He hit Marlon Moore in the hands. That should have been a catch.

 

I don't even really think he missed Moore. I think Moore botched that. And I think he missed Hartline only because Hartline has no extra gear.