***Official 2012-13 MLB HOTSTOVE OFF-SEASON THREAD***

Unless Longo is out for an extended period of time again, there's no way the Rays are worse. Even if we hold off Meyers to not start his clock, he will still be up and our offense will be better. With Davis gone, Farnsworth and JP Howell undecided, I'm slightly worried about our pen. However, one of those SP that we have an abundance of will be fine in Davis' role in the pen. And we've seen to do ok finding pen arms.

 

I will say it again, I just don't get the hurry......to get those guys back for Shields is such a great job done by Friedman it isnt even funny.....

It is highway robbery.....

So Nappy now that he is gone you can bust him up like we do on the Big Game aspect hahahahah it is okay now...

 

Rays now have a little money to spend as well... I think a certain AJ I cant spell his name will be catching soon for them.

 

The reason why I said the Rays have gotten worse in 2013 with the trade is because TB now has to replace Shield's 200 plus innings and 30 plus starts in the rotation along with Davis arm in the pen, who was quietly pretty damn good there. This is not a knock on TB by any means, as I love the trade and still think as of today they are the favorites to win the AL East but there's no way anyone can say they're better today than they were yesterday and that's assuming Myers steps in and hits like he should from one day. It's not easy to replace those starts and innings Shields gave them. I know TB has plenty of pitching depth but there's no guarantee Cobb or Archer for example can match Shields in 2013.

I know we all had a good time knocking the "Big Game James" nickname saying it was a bit overrated but let's not underrate him now either. The guy is a good pitcher, he's no David Price (who's great) but the Rays did just lose their 2nd best pitcher on the staff.

 

Yes but you also have to take into account Matt Moore. He was probably our 2nd best pitcher in the 2nd half. Innings wise he won't be James Shields, but he can be more dominate while on the mound. I'd fully expect either a healthy Neimann or a 2nd year Cobb to be able to replace Moore's numbers. So I just think your looking about it the wrong way RF. Are we going to miss James and his 200 strong innings. Yes, without a doubt. But there won't be much drop off compared to how much better we got on offense.

Davis was good out of the pen. But like I said, I would suspect the 6th starter to replace his production from there rather easily.

By the way, as much as I think we won this trade, Wade Davis should not be an after thought. If he locates while starting like he did in our pen last year, I fully expect that the Royals just traded for their ace in Shields and their #2/3 in Davis.

 

Yea we freed up about 12 million. We are sitting at a projected 50 million with a projection for the Arb. cases. So we can afford to add another piece. Whether it be at DH or catcher.

 

You're assuming a lot though. That's not to say Moore won't be as good as Shields was in 2012 or will be in 2013 or someone else in the organization can step up and have a good year for the Rays as a SP. And who's to say that Wil Myers will hit like a superstar right out of the gate, we just don't know. He could be Ryan Braun from day 1 or it could take him awhile to figure out MLB pitching, like it did with Mike Trout for example. We just don't know. The thing we do know is the Rays lost their 2nd best SPer and now need someone to step in and fill the hole. With the way the AL East is right now, a win or 2 could make the difference. Again I'm not saying the Rays will be bad by any means, I still think they are the best team in the division right now, however I think it's entirely fair and valid to say that the Rays are worse than they were yesterday. That's not to say that they will or won't be worse because we have to play the game on the field but I don't see how any team losing their 2nd best pitcher can be better simply because we don't know how those replacement(s) in the rotation or how Myers will be yet.

Not knocking the Rays by any means, just trying to be realistic.

 

Ok. Maybe if you say worse then we were yesterday. Then I'd agree. But I think as of yesterday we were better then we were last year. So I was arguing that we still are better then last year.

 

Well I honestly can't see how the Rays right now are better than they were at the end of 2012, when they won 90 games. They have a hole in CF, even if you want to plug Jennings in at CF and put Myers in the OF (again though we don't know what Myers will be in '13) and they did just lose James Shields and half their bullpen and of course the probable regression of Fernado Rodney. The team still has a lot of question marks in the line up and downgraded it's overall pitching staff.

Again though I still say TB is the favorites in the AL East right now since only the Blue Jays and Red Sox are the only teams in the AL East did anything to upgrade their teams from the end of last year. It's still only December 10th so there's a lot of offseason left to make moves. Right now though I can't see how anyone can say the Rays are a 90 win team on paper until we see what other moves they make.

 

Because our entire offense has been upgraded just by 3 simple facts. Pena is out of the lineup. Escobar(who upgrades us defensively a tremendous amount as well). And Longo coming back. Obviously he could get hurt again. But we aren't projecting injuries here. We don't have a whole in CF. You shift Jennings there, Joyce in Left and Zobrist in right. Then you have the possibility of Myers and Fuld out there. Offensively you have to think Roberts is better then Sean Rodriquez as well.

Yes we were a 90 win team. But I have no clue how. Our defense was bad. Our offense was insanely bad without Longo. Our defense should now be back to its prior form. Our pitching will still he there with a slight regression. And our offense will be much better. As a team yes I think it's clear we are better. Not saying we are going to win 110 games. Or even more then 90 right now. But as a team better yes.

 

If that's how you feel that's fine, I just don't agree with it. I think the loss of Shields is huge and so is Upton trying to replace his power, speed and defense in CF. I just think the downgrades in the pitching staff outweight the possible/questionable upgrades on offense.

 

FWIW, Upton hasn't been good in the field for a few seasons now, according to the defensive metrics (which I don't personally trust). He had a sub .300 OBP. Myers could probably match a sub .300 OBP and a bunch of HR's right now.

 

As far as his defense goes, people smarter than I am at this stuff (Keith Law for example) say he's still an above average defender in CF even if the metrics saw otherwise so I trust their opinions on that. Even with Upton's flaws at the plate, low OBP/high Ks, he's still was very durable (something his replacement in Jennings isn't and will be interesting to see how Jennings grades out in CF), has a good arm, range and also stole bases, so even with his low OBP he was still a valuable player. That's not to say Myers won't be as good or better in 2013, we just don't know that yet. That's why I said "possible/questionable upgrades on offense", since TB really didn't upgrade their offense power wise (yet) and are the additions of Loney and Escobar over Pena and Sean Rodriguez that much better?

Still point remains their pitching took a big hit, which is why I stand by them being worse today than yesterday. Again though still very early in the offseason, a lot can happen between now and April.

 

Escobar is light years ahead of Sean Rodriguez yes. And as far as Upton defensively he was above average. Not the best first step but he would make up for it. And his arm strength was fantastic! But his accuracy was really bad the past few years.

 

Kevin Towers is an idiot .... That is all.

 

If Kevin Towers traded with Dayton Moore, I wonder who would "win" the trade.

 

Atleast Moore's trade makes sense if he is worried about being fired and wants to win now.... Or atleast try.


I just cant see trading a future ace at 21 years old for a ss that is pretty bleh. Sure Bauer has a huge ego but if Towers is going to trade anyone with an ego he wont have a team!

 

I seen this trade flash on the bottom of espn, and I watched it at the bar I was at for a solid hour, because I was thinking I kept missing something with the trade. I have no clue why Towers would do that?

 

He must have REALLY wanted Lars Anderson badly. But yeah makes no sense, you'd think a 21 year old pitching prospect with 6 years service time that was the number 3 pick in the draft in 2011 would net you more than an all glove/no bat SS, left handed relief specialist and 25 year old career minor league 1B.

 

As an Indians fan I've been following this trade all week - it seems the Tribe was trying to give them Asdrubal Cabrera and they'd rather have the kid from Cincy. So the Indians gave up one year of Choo for Bauer. Blows my mind.

 

I think both the Indians and Reds did really well in this trade.

 

Stubbs is a useful player as well if he bounces back from a poor 2012. Albers and Shaw are decent RPers too. But yeah even if it was just Bauer it would have been a great move by the Indians.

 

Dodgers trade for super utilityman, Skip Schumacker. He can play all outfield spots as well as second base and is a carrer .280+ hitter. Good bench move in my opinion. Dodgers get their fourth outfielder (although he struggles against lefties) and a right side middle infielder which allows Hairston to back up third and first in a pinch.

I still think they are going to end up moving Dee Gordon and/or waiving Juan Uribe. As well as trade one or two starters for relief help (talk of Capuano to the Pirates) but overall,I think the Dodgers roster is pretty close to set. At least the starters are.

 

Wouldnt they use Puig as the 4th OF or does he need time in the minors?

 

He's 22 years old and played in 23 career minor league games, none above A ball. I'd say he could use some more time in the minors. Plus even if he was ready, it would be an incredible waste to have him on the bench and not playing everyday at this point in his career, he needs PT.

 

He needs a full year in the minors. Schumaker is a FA after this year so perhaps next year he takes on the fourth outfielder role. But even then, I think they are looking for him to be more of an everyday player so most likely he would stay down below until an injury or a trade occurred.

He may be called up in September when the rosters expand to 40, but that is best case scenario most likely.

 

This is the Dodgers we are speakin about. I wouldnt be surprised if they signed a few more starting pitchers just for ****s and giggles.

 

Oi please tell me Levine isnt going to pull another one and sign Ichiro for 2 years for the "marketing" aspect.....

 

So you're saying you wouldn't buy an "Ichiro 3000 t-shirt" or watch the game he gets the 3000th hit on YES' endless loop on an off day or over the winter?

 

Hardly specially if he was hitting like he was in 2011 or 2012 for the M's to do it.

 

I would rather see them sign him to a 1 yr with a team option....but hey listen some big name isn't walking through that door anytime soon..so Ichiro is about as big as it is going to get for this year, which is fine....IMO he is their second best hitter behind Jeter in terms of actually putting the ball in play regardless of the outcome, something they failed to do all last year in big spots....

 

How does Hamilton and Pull-hos taste? Word is it is 5/125...Swish pops a boner....

Plus Trumbo and Trout.......ouch....hitters abound.....

Your move Swish.....

 

Welcome to the AL East Mr. Dempster, prepare your anus.....

although 13M for him is a good deal...

 

Talk about a surprise! Heck now trade Granderson to the Rangers for Olt and some minor pieces....

 

Cubs signed Anibal Sanchez to a 5 year 75 million dollar deal. Looks like Theo hasn't learned from his Lackey signing....

 

Supposedly it's not done yet

 

I'm happy for Anibal Sanchez. He's been through a lot in his life. He deserves this.

 

The Angels might have the best lineup on paper now. Pitching staff's in the AL West just collectively swore. Good pick up by Anaheim.

 

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Who gets traded? I cant see them trying Trumbo at third again so one of Trumbo/Wells/Bourjous has to go.