All of that is still consistent with the principle that, when the team got good quarterback play, it won.
All this would make sense, if I actually said Philbin should be fired??? Where did you get that from my post??? If a new GM is hired, then Joe Philbin should be re-evaluated. Could the new GM decide that out of the hundreds of potential HCs, Joe Philbin is the best possible one? Sure. A new GM absolutely should re-evaluate everything. Mike Pouncey and Cameron Wake included. IMO they're so good that pretty much any process would end up evaluating them the same, even a flawed one. Just like a flawed process to hire a HC would probably still tell you to hire Jim Harbaugh, because he is that good. Has Joe Philbin shown you enough for anyone to equate him to Mike Pouncey or Cameron Wake?
BTW, what does it say that Brandon Marshall's valley in his career was his two years here in Miami? and why is it that when he leaves us, he heads into a career year?
I just think there has to be something wrong with your roster when you play the Pats and have midseason waiver wire picks ups "covering" Wes Welker.
So essentially you're saying that the highest authority in the Miami Dolphins can't be believed, yet you are asking for evidence? What more could actually be produced?
Because people equate success for Brandon Marshall as producing individual stats in high-volume, rather than actually contributing to an efficient offense? The better question is, has Brandon Marshall ever improved offensive efficiency of a team? Has a team ever become less efficient after he left?
How would you characterize playing a late-round WR at CB for the first time in his career in the SB???
I am saying that I don;t trust most of what comes out of the mouth of a salesman, and Ross was obviously trying to sell the trade.
Beyond even debating the actual merits of using the chart in general, should you really be using Jimmy Johnson's chart from what, 1990?
I never really liked Marshall and wouldn't call the whole Marshall episode a "good" one overall, but it really wasn't a disaster compared to the production one can really expect from a 2nd round pick. So I'll take on the challenge, not so much to say getting Marshall was a great thing but to illustrate how little one can really expect from a 2nd round WR. The Dolphins got 167 receptions, 2228 yards and 9 TDs out of Marshall. If you compare that to what you would "reasonably" expect from a 2nd round WR over his first 4 years who may then leave as a free agent, that's not so bad. To illustrate, below is what the WRs drafted in the 2nd round in 2008 and 2009 (guys drafted since then haven't been in the league for 4 years) produced in their first 4 seasons (compared to Marshall's 2 in Miami): BMarshall -- 167 rec. , 2228 yards, 9 TDs Robiskie -- 36, 416, 3 Massaquoi -- 116, 1729, 7 DAvery -- 103, 1308, 9 DThomas -- 43, 482, 3 JNelson -- 168, 2531, 21 JHardy -- 10, 96, 2 ERoyal -- 206, 2107, 9 JSimpson -- 71, 1004, 7 DJackson -- 230, 4096, 21 MKelly -- 28, 365, 0 LSweed -- 7, 69, 0 DexJackson -- 0, 0, 0 Of those 12 WRs drafted in the 2nd round in 2008 and 2009, only one clearly outproduced Marshall's 2 seasons in Miami over his first 4 seasons (Desean Jackson). On the strength of a great 4th year, Nelson snuck past Marshall. If you are a big fan of 9 yard catches, you might say Eddie Royal was almost as productive. But the rest all clearly underperformed Marshall's time in Miami. Marshall did get paid much more than these guys, but his production was about what $10 million per year gets you for a productive veteran WR in his prime in NFL free agency (VJackson averaged $11M/yr., Colston averaged $9M/yr., Garcon averages $8.5M/yr, DJackson averages $10.2M/yr.).
What we do know for sure is that Jeff Ireland has always had final say when it comes to player personnel decisions. That stipulation is what allowed him to leave Dallas in the 1st place, or it would have been considered a lateral move. If he chose not to exercise his power that doesn't make him any less responsible.
Well that's a well supported argument . . . . Two of the most respected local sports media guys who cover the team report it, but you think they are talking out of their ***, because . . . . When have you ever heard a coach give a quote about a player saying "goodbye and good riddance, the guy was a horrible football player and an even worse human being." It just doesn't happen. Nor should it.
What do you make of this? What I call the "Hidden" value of Brandon Marshall. A Player from an opposing team once told me that in his team's weekly DB meeting before playing the Dolphins, they spent 2 hours in an instructional meeting watching film and dissecting Marshall and Bess. It was equal to what they had done with most elite passing games. The same team played us in 08' and he was part of a meeting that adjourned into a complete defensive meeting where they discussed Pennington. This year, he was on a team that faced the Fins again....They spent half an hour on Davone Bess. What does that say?
This road has been traveled many times around here, but the fact that his contract may have had such language does not mean he could have enforced it in any meaningful way. Sure, if he objected to something Parcells wanted to do he could have sued after the fact for breach of contract, but he could not have prevented the move from being made. And what would his damages be for breach of such a provision? Effectively nothing. He would, however, certainly have been fired. He'd still have been able to collect the sums remainign under the contract, but he would also have made himself a pariah around the league as a prima donna sh!t disturber and probably never get another meaningful NFL job again. Now, I have no reason to believe he ever did disagree in any meaningful way with anything Parcells wanted to do. But the contractual authority argument carries no weight or practical meaning.
No, they did report it. They stated it as fact, not as their opinion. The fact they didn't identify their source doesn't make it any less of a "report." Most reporters don't reveal their sources and they generally can't even be legally compelled to do so. You have no basis whatsoever to claim they speculated based on assumptions unless you spoke to them about and they told you so, which we both know didn't happen. But if you want to publicly impugn their journalistic integrity with no factual basis for doing so . . . . I certainly don't believe everything that is reported in the news, but these reports seem supported by the circumstances.
So what about all the other contradictory "reports"? So it's okay to "impugn" those people's journalistic integrity? Neither man produced a quote. So therefore, it is not credible. Neither man really cited a source, did they?
What other contradictory reports? Who reported that Philbin wanted Marshall and was upset that he was traded? Please provide a link. Sorry, but news reports are not rendered non-credible by the fact that there is no verbatim quote. It just doesn't work that way. And again, the lack of a cited source doesn't make it any less of a report either. If Philbin spoke to them directly and said, "Look guys, I'm new here and don't want to be quoted or have this attributed directly to me, but I positively hate Brandon Marshall, want him nowhere near my team or my soon-to-be-drafted rookie QB, and I don't think he really fits into what I want to do, so I begged Ireland to trade him," reporting what they did would be extremely credible and legitimate reporting and yet would not cite a source or include a quote. I don't know if it went down like that at all or if they spoke directly to Philbin, but I'm not going to call into question the journalistic integrity of two of South Florida's more respected sports journalists.
At this point I want Ireland fired just so he isn't the topic of the first thread I see every day all day all season.
That is primarily why I don't consider any of that stuff to be any more than assumption and speculation. I don't mind the lack of quotes, but the fact that neither cited a source, even an anonymous one, tells me they were taking a columnist's license. Those weren't "reports".
Ah, and BPK with the classic surrender post! "I'll never agree with you, but I want him gone too so we can stop talking about it" We saw this a lot with Henne right before the end was near. Let's hope this leading indicator holds true once again!
As someone who is fairly on the fence about the Vontae trade, I don't think rushing to judgment is correct. The guy's talented, and it certainly wouldn't be the first time a player needed time to acclimate himself to a new team. Give it another year or two, and let's also see how we cash in that 2nd round pick.
What part of that translates into hidden value? Especially when you consider that Marshall for all intents and purposes made Bess and Hartline look worse when he was here, rather than better?
Because it is still a roster weakness which should be corrected. But that roster, unlike ours, was still good enough in other areas, to make the SB. As another example, just because you have a good enough team to make the Super Bowl with David Woodley at QB, does not mean you shouldn't attempt to correct that roster weakness...
Ever read his book? If you take it as gospel...he would have gone all out for Peyton Manning. So...who knows? Roster maturity and Roster obsolescence.
