Once again, please actually look at the context. Go look at the results of past trades recently. It's not a desirable outcome, but getting probably 80% of the player you expected, and being able to mostly recoup your draft picks is a better than average result for a big trade. Not to mention that trading for Brandon Marshall was inherently a high risk move. The only reason he was available, especially for the price paid, was because of the issues that drove him out of town here. The fact that someone was willing to pay a pretty decent percentage of it when it became clear a change of scenery would not fix him was pretty good.
And if Moore's stretch had represented what he was capable of on a regular basis, Sparano might still be here, but I guarantee you we'd all still be talking about that.
The difference between Moore and Henne is that Moore's performance, regardless of whether it represents what he's capable of over the long term, came at a time when it was too little too late for the Sparano regime. Then Philbin and company were brought in, and of course they want their own QB. Sparano and company sank with Henne, not Moore.
What if when you traded for him, you were acquiring personnel for a coaching staff who didn't view him as a problem, and then when you traded him away, you were making personnel moves for a different coaching regime who viewed him as someone they wouldn't tolerate? Surely you aren't saying Jeff Ireland should totally disregard the wishes of the coaches for whom he's making personnel moves.
Matt Moore very much is in that mix. He was, after all, the QB more than half of the time until Sparano got canned last season. Everyone conveniently forgets that he rolled a donut 3.5 straight games before his 6-3 stretch.
I don't forget that. I do also remember that he was a free agent brought into a new system after a lock out.
Link? I know for a FACT that Brandon Marshall WANTED to be a Dolphin, or at least that there was substantial anecdotal evidence that he wanted to be.
Since when did we start having to know whether things are true before we spoke about them? Or is that just incumbent on the people on one side of the debate and not those on the other.
The point is that the team played as well as would be expected when it got good quarterback play (its 6-3 record when Moore's QB rating was 97), which suggests the talent surrounding the quarterback isn't lacking as some think. The 6-3 stretch, however, was not good enough to save Sparano's job, because of the way Chad Henne had played for the 2.5 years prior.
Multiple reporters who follow the team pretty closely, including Dave Hyde and Barry Jackson, reported that Philbin wanted Marshall to be traded and didn't see him as a good fit here. Dave Hyde reported that Philbin was the one who wanted Marshall traded: http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/20...826-1_1_philbin-vontae-davis-brandon-marshall Barry Jackson similarly reported that Philbin didn't see Marshall as a good fit. http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/14/2691697/miami-dolphins-trade-receiver.html#storylink=cpy Philbin's statements at the time also make that fairly clear, although he was not explicit about i, as do the circumstances. I think it is fairly clear that Brandon Marshall would not have been a subject Philbin was ambivalent about. If he wanted Marshall here and Ireland traded him out from under Philbin against Philbin's knowledge or wishes, we certainly would have heard about it. We do know that Philbin and Ireland work together and discuss major personnel moves. We know Philbin said he doesn't believe you need to have a No. 1 receiver. We know that the team was planning, or at least thinking, about drafting a first round QB and that Marshall can be very hard on QBs. We know that Philbin is a bit "prudish" for lack of a better term and is extremely concerned about appearances and how the players conduct themselves in public and in the locker room. I think it all paints a reasonably clear picture that Philbin would not have been a big Brandon Marshall fan. Do you know of any facts, or even speculation, to suggest that Philbin liked Marshall, wanted Marshall, or was even the slightest bit unhappy or displeased about the trade?
I thought it was obvious. The Dolphins gave up picks #45 and #46 for Brandon Marshall and got back picks #73 and (currently) #89. The total loss of draft value equates to the #38 pick in the Draft. On top of that, they gave up $20 million. The production for the two years does not match that level of compensation. Maybe it could have if they stuck with Marshall, or maybe it would have been worse. Either way it goes down as a failed trade. Although I'm sure there are some argumentative types out there that will spin anything, I think that should be pretty universally agreed upon that Miami did not get their money's worth.
I've never even seen any reporting that Philbin drove the Marshall trade. I've seen assumptions and opinions from reporters, but every one of them seemed like no better than a guess.
Ah, well then we can start with the theory that Jeff Ireland has been making the major personnel decisions from 2008 on. Let me know when somebody here knows that for sure.
A. If Ireland is fired, it would be an inherent acknowledgement that the organization feels his replacement is of better ability. Thus, any coaching search with Ireland's replacement would inherently be superior to any coaching search with Ireland himself. B. Assuming that Ross decided to draft Tannehill on his own, it would only be considered flawed if it was acknowledged that Steve Ross' ability was inferior to someone that would take over that role.
Like many things with this organization, we don;t know what Philbin "liked" or "wanted". I also think that Barry Jackson and Dave Hyde are talking out of their *** in those articles. it is rather easy to get a quote on record from a coach on a trade. The only quotes I could find is that Philbin doesn't "regret" the trade.
Of course you don't completely disregard the will of the coaching staff. But, A) Tony Sparano's coaching staff (especially Karl Dorrell and Den Henning) HATED Brandon Marshall, and so if Jeff Ireland's thesis was that this coaching staff can handle a malapert like him then obviously that was a wrong theory, B) Your argument relies upon an imaginary construct: that Joe Philbin went into Jeff Ireland's office and demanded they trade Marshall. We have no evidence that happened. Just assumption and guesswork. C) The bottom line is if YOU are in charge of the front office then YOU dictate the principles by which you acquire players. You position it as if sticking to your principles means "totally disregard(ing)" the wishes of the coaches, but that's just a way to spin it into extremes.
Is he making them now, or is it a combination of Elvis and Bigfoot from a Space Station outside of Jupiter? The ****ing guy's Job Title is/was GENERAL MANAGER. Keep those goal posts where there are, please.
I personally thought the trade for Marshall was an awful move at the time. I think in hindsight it was an awful move. But there is more to it than simply being a binary outcome where you either get your money's worth or you don't. There are far worse moves that have been made around the NFL. There are a lot of situations where teams make moves like Miami did, but never get the opportunity of at least salvaging some value. There also has been indications that Ross pushed the move himself, but I don't think thats even worthy of debate unfortunately.
We do know that Marshall would have been cut if he wasn't traded. IMO that says the coaches didn't want him, or the owner didn't want to pay his salary.
This is candy cane logic. I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound insulting, but it is. It's flimsy in the extreme. Your logic would also dictate that whatever new front office comes in should cut Mike Pouncey and find a replacement for him. After all, this new front office is supposedly superior to the old front office which means that the process by which the old front office found and drafted Mike Pouncey is inferior to whatever process the new staff would use to find his replacement. Voila. Goodbye Mike Pouncey. Goodbye Cameron Wake. Goodbye Reshad Jones. Goodbye Ryan Tannehill. Ah so there you have it. We'd better cut Ryan Tannehill then. And Paul Soliai, since it was Randy Mueller's failed regime in the 1-15 season that brought him here.
Philbin was absolutely behind the Marshall trade... lets remember the timeline. Philbin is named Dolphins head coach approx the week before the Pro Bowl. Marshall leaves for the Pro Bowl practice week within a few days of Philbin being named coach. During Pro Bowl practice week, Marshall takes to twitter among other avenues to proclaim that it would be great to play with Cutler again and that he doesn't like the Dolphins' quarterbacks. The Bears' trade was announced at the start of the new league year, as early as possible. Multiple reports state the trade was previously agreed to weeks prior to the Marshall incident in New York.
Job titles are just titles. They don't necessarily reflect what actually happens. Almost everything discussed in this context is speculation. Jeff Ireland still has a boss, which means he does not have total control.
I was against the trade when it happened and I was for trading him away. However, I acknowledge that Brandon is an extremely talented, surprisingly driven athlete. He could be the best in the NFL any given year. Nonetheless, I thought from an attitude perspective it didn't make sense to acquire him. Though, I would have drafted him in a New York minute. I'll take all his attitude problems if he's cheap and not costing anything on the salary cap.
That 0-7 start to last season didn't have anything to do with it? Weird. I'll agree to disagree with you then, because there was more to Matt Moore last season than the 6-3 stretch, and it wasn't pretty. Even some games within that 6-3 stretch that Miami won, Matt Moore wasn't pretty in.
I've really heard everything about the Marshall trade. I've also heard that the decision to trade Marshall was made before Philbin was even hired.
