Remember a few weeks ago when we were 4-3, and everyone, almost, was predicting at least a 9-7 or 10-6 final record? Those days seem so surreal now.
There is no way to know that for sure either way. Would having more talent on the roster improve the team's chances of winning more games? IMO, the 2nd was a good move if winning as many games as possible was not your primary goal in 2012. Otherwise, heck, why not have just traded every 2013 free agent that we probably won't be able to resign?
The lack of getting a decent WR or TE to help his rookie QB is not his fault ? Once again, no he doesn't. The cap space will be used to resign our guys, not for big free agents. The draft picks ? Since when does he do the draft well ?
It's irrational to think Ireland knows the difference between a star and a car. If his hands were tied in 08 then he hasn't drafted a single Pro Bowler in 4 years. He is part of the previous regime and signed off on every single pick made. His production has been laughable at best.
Right. That's not regression, though. His QB rating and YPA are higher. That's more indicative of his ability.
One cornerback wouldn't be responsible for that much. So yes, I'm sure. It's the right move if you want to bring back one of your CBs in Smith and Davis. Yes, it made us a little weaker this season. But his loss isn't that significant and the gain is. It's a good move. That theory is stupid.
There's an even better chance Brandon Marshall, Davone Bess, and Brian Hartline this year would be equally or more productive than Brian Hartline and Davone Bess this year.
I don't think that's correct. If he wasn't going to be a FA, I retract my statement about it being a good trade.
his deal is up next year, he was a 1st round pick in 09 so we were able to sign him to a 5 year deal.
a 2nd round pick IS really good value for Vontae. it's about as high a pick as you can get nowadays because teams just do not want to part with 1st rounders. so technically, it was a good trade. however, that doesn't mean it was the right trade. you don't deal a player away just because you got offered really good compensation, unless you got player(s) that can adequately step in and replace what you lost, and in Vontae's case we clearly didn't have that. i mean a team could offer Detroit two 1st rounders for Calvin Johnson, that's great value for a top 2 or 3 WR in this league, but the Lions still wouldn't and shouldn't do the deal.
He's had 2 years of drafting on his own, for his own team, using his own blueprint, and for a coaching staff that seems capable of developing players. If you think those 2 classes have reached full development to where you can pass judgment so soon, then obviously you hold bias. Considering rookies rarely make the Pro Bowl, all you truly have to go on is 2011, which features a likely All Pro. Just b/c our inexperienced 2012 class might not be 2012 Pro Bowlers, it doesn't mean they're not Pro Bowl caliber players. Ireland was responsible for scouting CFL players, so it's irrational to dismiss Wake & Thigpen, as those are 2 guys taking up roster spots. It was also reported that Ireland had a greater hand in the later round picks while Parcells was here, so you'd have to look into who was most responsible for drafting Reshad Jones (will be robbed if not a Pro Bowler). Guilty by association despite not being a Parcellian disciple? Nice one. More evidence of bias. "Ireland" signed off on stuff? When was he given authority over Godfather Parcells to where he could "sign off"? Parcells did the signing off, not Ireland. That's indisputable.
Well, if Ireland truly hired Philbin, then Philbin should come out and say he's been doing a good job and would love to continue the relationship.....right?. If that one on one meeting does goes down, and we don't here good things comin from Philbin, it will tell us a lot about who hired who.. Amazing how we don't know for sure, either way, if our Gm hired the coach of our team..lol.. As Ronin pointed in his post earlier, he's the common denominator, this fanbase is fed up as a majority, and it could get even worse real fast, the direction were going is not good y'all, he's gonna have to take the hit especially if the team loses at home again..Of course I don't believe in making changes based on perception of the fanbase, but this is a different animal going on here.
If we could get a 2nd for Hartline he would've been gone yesterday..... plus we still need to field a team.
A 2nd round pick vs 2 years of Vontae's service? 2nd round pick wins out every time. A player has got to be significantly more consistent & dependable to borrow him for 2 years at that high a price.
true.... but Calvin Johnson is irreplaceable, where as the 2nd for Vontae can go toward a greater need/benefit than cornerback... like WR, FS, pass rusher, or perhaps a new RT in case Jake is done here.
Someone else already mentioned how negligible the gap can be between a 6-10 and 10-6 team..... and we're a prime example as we lost 5 late 4th quarter games last year and are 3 plays from being 8-4 this year.
I believe Dave Hyde and myself were the only ones that reiterated and maintained a 6-10 prediction even despite the 4-3 record. I'm sure you can imagine the ridicule that was me with.
Have you? The reason I ask is because while Vontae went out and had a TERRIBLE week one outing merely one week after being traded to an unfamiliar team with an unfamiliar system and unfamiliar support players, he's been a positive ever since. PFF gave him a -4.8 rating for that week one game. The other four games he's played, he had a positive grade in each game, a total of +3.7 over four games, which includes a +4.6 Coverage rating. To put that in context, in 12 games Sean Smith's overall rating is +1.3 with a +1.5 Coverage rating. Smith has allowed 6.2 yards per attempt with 6 touchdowns and 2 interceptions...which works out to 1.07 yards per coverage snap. After that first game where Vontae was obviously thrown to the wolves with a defense he didnt yet know, he's allowing 7.2 yards per attempt with only 1 touchdown and 0 interceptions, a total Of 0.94 yards per coverage snap. Pretty clear Vontae had a shock game less than a week after being shipped from Miami to Indianapolis like a FedEx package. Didn't know the players around him didn't know the defense, etc. But after that he got settled in and has arguably out performed Sean Smith.
If its such a negligible gap how come for four years Miami consistently can't find a way to cross it?
I don't agree with this. I don't think it was because he was new on the team. He was pretty much soundly beaten all day. Plus, he's only played 334 vs 839 for Smith. And those are snaps against Minnesota, Cleveland, Jacksonville, Tennessee, Detroit and Chicago.
That's a good question. IMHO it's b/c in '09 & '10 we were what our record said we were.... but the last year 2 years I thought we lost a bunch of games we should've won that we would've had no business winning in the past. We weren't a play here and play there away from being a 10-6 team in '09 & '10, nor a handful of last minute 4th quarter losses from being 10-6 either [especially when we looked liked the better team]. But then again, maybe the team we have fielded is simply incapable of executing for a full 60 minutes to where its inherently flawed and coaching can't make up the difference. I'd like to think that's not the case.... but we'll see right.
I heard something to that, too, "reportedly"..... but I really don't know what that means when there's Parcells squeezing in a luxury Pat White pick and his hometown TE John Nalbone. That kinda alters the play of the draft when it revolves around selecting White with 2a. I'm just glad we no longer have Tuna's outdated blueprint ruling the draft, especially the frequent doubling up at positions (especially considering he seemed to sacrifice talent to do so). Ireland might be a temporary question mark regarding identifying players for the new system (which I'm fine with ATM) but at least his drafts are more exciting and doesn't mind taking risks on upside players.
We're also 3 plays from being 2-10. We easily could have lost to Cincy, STL and Seattle. Fact is, we're right where our talent level syas we should be. a 5 to 7 win team
The problem with taking this position in defense of Ireland is this: Who traded for him? The Brandon Marshall saga was and is a disaster all around.
Ridiculous argument. Ok, let's put in the "good year" as you call it. That makes it 11-5, 7-9, 7-9, 6-10 (and I'll be generous and give us 7-9 for this year too. Which of those numbers is the outlier? Does one seem like it might be a fluke to you? Secondly, the GM is the mosr improtant person in any sports franchise. the guy picking your players is the person most responsible for your success. So, yeah, I'm pinning most of the problems on the guy picking the players when we don't have enough good players.
No, it wasn't a disaster. Not even close. A disaster would involve him being unproductive and being left unable to recoup any of his costs. I didn't particularly like trading for Brandon Marshall to begin with, but it wasn't an unreasonable trade. The cost was not unreasonable to see if a change of scenery would make Marshall less of a ****-up.
They got a very productive wide receiver for Two #2's. He was "kinda" productive here. We traded him away for Two #3's. He is VERY productive again. I would say that is a pretty big Front Office **** up/ coupled with a coaching failure.
What DJ said about this makes sense, that what Philbin might say to Ross about Ireland in a possible forthcoming one on one meeting would say a lot about Ireland's part in Philbins' hiring. If there is any justification in retaining Ireland for one more year it would be that it would hopefully be more of an Ireland-Philbin collaboration on the draft and free agency. It could be said of that last year too, but Philbin was really a newbie and not necessarily in a position to be as intricately involved (and as well informed) as he would be this coming off-season. This is where a hypothetical one on one conversation between Ross and Philbin gains credence. Ross likely would want to know how does Philbin feel he works with Ireland? Does he feel that there is good communication and give and take? Does Ireland listen to Philbin? Does he feel that he and Ireland can build a winning team? Those kind of questions. Now that the regular season is winding down with essentially no chance for the playoffs, I am looking forward to the off-season as I think it will be a most interesting time.
The same reporter has repeatedly said that Pat White was not a Parcells pick, he was an everyone pick and that includes especially Jeff Ireland. This reporter happens to be the closest of all the reporters to Jeff Ireland and has served as his go-to guy whenever he has something to say to the press. For example, when Jeff Ireland called a season ticket holder an "*******", he didn't release an official statement of apology or regret. He called this particular individual reporter and made a statement to him, and then declared that his conversation with this one reporter will serve as their official comment on the incident.
I think it goes without saying the Brandon Marshall trade from start to finish ended up a bad idea for Miami. You give two 2nd round picks for him and you get two 3rd round picks for him in return, losing approximately a 2nd round pick's worth of draft value. Sure, he gave you two seasons of subpar (for him) production, but you also paid him handsomely to the tune of approximately $10 million per year for that production. A 2nd round pick plus $20 million for 167 catches on 270 attempts, 2228 yards, 9 TDs with 10 INTs in his direction, 27 drops and 3 fumbles? That's not a "wash". That's a loss. He's a great player but Miami didn't put themselves in position to get their money's worth out of him, and instead of letting him earn that money in later years (which is what he's doing in Chicago) they liquidated him at a loss. I think you either don't trade for him at all, because of his history, or you just live with it. I don't think you trade for him knowing he has this personality then trade him away because of that personality. Either they made a mistake acquiring him or they made a mistake parting with him...can't have it both ways.
I don't see how that is a big FO blunder. He was a very productive WR who we got for a reasonable price. He wasn't quite as productive here, which is no fault of the FO, and it became clear that he has serious psychological problems that aren't just going to go away as he gets older. The new coach didn't want him and asked the FO to trade him and the FO recouped as much as it could get for him. To me, that the coach didn't want him and felt he would be a hindrance to what he was trying to accomplish justifies trading him away no matter how productive he might have been (and although he put up nice gross numbers, he also dropped a ton of passes, including TDs). If there was a team willing to give more than the 2 3rds for him, then trading him for 2 3rds was a bad trade, but I haven't heard about any other team that was willing to give more.
