Among defensive ends who play in a 4-3, Pro Football Focus ranks Odrick 61st and last in pass rush but 20th against the run. “There have been too many times I’ve been too close and just missed a big play,” said Odrick, who had five sacks as a part-time starter in 2011. “I’m putting myself in the right position. [But] I’ve made leaps and bounds in the run game.” Whereas Odrick is 310 pounds, Miami’s other starting end – Cameron Wake – is 258. Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/spor...-decision-under-microscope.html#storylink=cpy note: I'm surprised that Odrick is playing DE at 310 lbs, I thought that he dropped 10 or 15 lbs for added quickness. In terms of pairing him up with an appropriate OLB I think that he could work well in tandem with Sean Porter, a very quick LB and a good pass rusher. Thunder and lightning, and a much needed pass rush threat opposite Cameron Wake.
I think the focus should be less on the performance on Odrick, and more on the decision to put him in that position. The coaching staff values the flexibility and skill-set Odrick brings over having a second edge rusher in the base package. They didn't stick him there because he was the best pass rusher, and I think the idea he would be performing as he was as a pass rusher is not desirous but also not entirely unexpected. Personally I'd like a different approach, but at the end of the day a base package with only one edge rusher isn't all that abnormal.
Looking back at that draft, my recollection was that the decision was between Earl Thomas or Jason Pierre-Paul and trading down. We had just acquired Marshall so Dez Bryant wasn't really a consideration anymore. What I said at the time was (and what I still believe) is that we traded away the opportunity to pick a great player to select two good players. I would have preferred the great player.
I agree with a lot of that, but at the same time they have to get a pass rusher in there opposite Wake, especially on passing downs. Someone has to step up, an although Vernon is a pretty good player he's far from an accomplished pass rusher. I expected more pass rush from Odrick- the man is very quick for his size. But as the PFF ranking indicates, he's not providing enough pass rush from his DE position. Why is he still playing at 310? Also, how much is Kevin Burnett to blame for the lack of a pass rush? I'm with you in that I like Odrick in the base package- just have him drop 10 or 15 lbs, if he can do that effectively. Maybe it's time for 2 new OLBs- I keep wondering if Koa Misi can replace Karlos Dansby and his bloated salary at ILB. I like Misi and he's a good strong side OLB, but let's face it he's not exactly a demon pass rusher. We need attack pieces in this defense, and a better pass rush and better FS could do wonders. Playmakers. Parcells/Ireland loaded us up with pretty good base defense players. As with the offense, it's time to get playmakers. Pass rushers, CBs, a ball hawking free safety. I could still see a combo of Sean Porter and Corey Lemonier (or some other similar duo) coming in to elevate team speed, athleticism and pass rush. Six picks in the top 4 rounds- imo spend each and every one of them on playmakers to get this team literally and figuratively up to speed.
I don't know who the team was really considering, but the faves among those on this board were Thomas and either Brandon Graham or Jerry Hughes. IMO Odrick was a much better pick than Graham or Hughes would have been. Hell, Misi has more career sacks than Graham or Hughes and alsmost as many as the two of them combined. I was all about Earl Thomas at the time, but I actually think he's a little overrated now. He hasn't been that much of a playmaker the last two seasons. And PFF has him rated far below both Jones and Clemons this year.
I'm fine with Odrick, our run defense is partly due to him. what we need is another stud OLB and a DE that can rush on passing downs when we move Odrick inside. Maybe Vernon develops into that role, maybe not. either way, I'd draft both in the top 3 rounds next year.
Graham suffered two season ending injuries. This season he's been healthy and great. Much better than Odrick.
Whatta y'all think about the two for one approach to this draft...I think it should definitely be considered..I like the approach. This draft might be the one to do it..Get Philbin as many chances as possible to get his type of players... Imagine a late 1st..3 2nds's..2 thirds...2 fourths..
I agree. Had we taken Graham or Hughes with a much higher pick people would be even more critical of Ireland, as they should be. Had he taken Thomas, people would be pointing out that he passed on PFF's top rated safety who could have been had in the 5th round and who has more INTs than Thomas this year to take Thomas in the 1st.
I'm not sure, could be a lot of justifications for it. It could be they really are more interested in the run aspects in the base package. It could be that position will be in the future more rotational. Who knows? I think part of the problem could be in a way Cameron Wake. He's a left-side only, and I would think ideally Odrick would be a strong-side guy and Wake the left-side guy, and they'd be playing more Under fronts than Over. I don't think so at all. He's a pretty decent blitzer, in my opinion. I'm not so sure Misi could be an every-down true linebacker. If you moved him, he might be a guy you've got to replace with a Nickel substitute which creates other issues. I also think you're potentially losing some important stuff in the defense... I don't think Misi would be athletic enough to drop into deeper coverages from a position challenging A-gaps like Dansby and Burnett can. Misi isn't much of a pass rusher at OLB, but so far I'm not sure that position really is a pass rushing position. Sometimes Misi still lines up at DE or as an edge rushing linebacker in Nickel situations, but in the base package he's still pretty well a normal linebacker despite his background. Manny Lawson was the same way in Cincinnati. I like the concept and the position of some of the 4-3 edge rushing linebackers like Von Miller, but I'm not sure Miami would be in that market.
I just recall the reports of Ireland going to personally watch JPP workout right before the draft. I also heard rumors that they had JPP as the #1 DE on their board. Graham and Hughes may have been talked about here, but my impression back then was that they were much lower on the team's list.
Every team has a two-down linebacker anyway, since on passing downs a nickel CB is brought in. Misi's being a two-down linebacker is no strike against him. Every team needs a LB who is instinctual against the run and can make stops on first and second down.
If you are married or in a serious relationship you know fine isn't. How do you like the ring I bought you for $5,000 babe? ... It is fine . We had a premium pick which we traded down , getting fine doesn't get you difference makers . Premium for fine isn't a good trade off imo.
Premium pick, by what measure? What exactly is the average (not the best possible) return on the pick we had?
Drew has a lot of bluster we all know that , he however had several sessions where he was selling JPP to Miami . Ireland didn't buy.
To me the 12th pick in the first round is a premium asset , it may not be to you however. Can we trade Odrick for the 12th pick in this draft?
Again, how are you defining premium asset? What exactly is expected from the 12th pick in the NFL draft? In order for the criticisms to be objective, those things need to be quantified.
That's been the tread for a while. I'm a fan of Ireland, but he has routine opted with the shotgun approach (doubling up) and taking "safe" over "star potential." I'm hopeful that this is the year it changes. As a side note, I really don't understand why people always want to move players 300+ pounds to OLB. I remember constantly reading it about Merling and now about Odrick. It ain't going to happen, nor should it.
I don't think it's about the label. They felt that they could add two picks which would be more valuable than any one player they could take with their one pick. I disagreed.
Ireland will trade down and select two or three mediocre players over a great player every time. That is the reason this team has been mediocre every year he has been the teams GM, except for 2008.
I think it can make sense depending on the position. But at any position with primary play makers in the passing game (offense or defense) you should err on the side of greatness (vs. multiple good/safe pics).
You mean 2008, the only time it's had a QB who was playing very well (Chad Pennington, QB rating = 97)? Oh and that other time, when Matt Moore's QB rating was 97, and they were 6-3 during that period? This widespread belief in Jeff Ireland's ineptitude seems to serve as a set of "blinders" that prevents any further analysis of the situation.
Drew mentioned this several times in radio interviews , so no idea if he did this on tv as well or not. He mentioned he had multiple talks with the Dolphins about JPP prior to the draft and was trying to let the Dolphins know he was going to be a great player and they should take him.
To put things in proper perspective, I plotted out all draft picks between 2001 and 2010 based on draft position, and Career AV: http://i.imgur.com/j0quS.png So, the #10 pick in the NFL draft should be expected to generate a player with a career AV ~35. Since 2001, here are the drafted players that produced a career AV of 35: OAK Robert Gallery SEA Koren Robinson NWE Jerod Mayo TEN Michael Griffin DEN Ashley Lelie KAN Dwayne Bowe JAX Marcedes Lewis CHI Devin Hester DET Andre' Goodman BUF Ron Edwards SFO Kevan Barlow TAM Dwight Smith NWE Nick Kaczur MIN Ray Edwards TEN Justin Hartwig ATL Kevin Shaffer
Just my opinion , any pick in the top half of a draft would be a premium asset . If you don't think it is that is your choice , I have no desire to have you think this. You can think the first pick in a draft is not a premium asset , your perogative. Would anyone trade the 12th pick in this draft for Odrick?
I have no idea. My guess would be no. I'm not sure how thats relevant either way. Better than trying to analyze what future decisions would be, we have plenty of data that can instruct us on how past decisions have turned out. I just posted objective evidence of what the average player picked with the #10 pick should produce, and it certainly isn't "premium".
He mentioned they had discussions , that he told the Dolphins he would be an impact player and that the Dolphins expressed to him they indeed liked him . As we all know however , not enough to pick him when they had a chance. They decided to go in another direction.
Great, but that's irrelevant to what I said. I said "I just recall the reports of Ireland going to personally watch JPP workout right before the draft. I also heard rumors that they had JPP as the #1 DE on their board." For some reason you assumed that I had heard this from Drew. Since I had not and the reports were from other sources, than whatever Drew said is irrelevant.
Again , winning organizations hit on picks that perform above their draft slot/value , Ireland has had challenges doing this and the wins and losses have reflected this. They don't hit on everyone , but they do ... we all know there were players picked after pick 12 that would have been a better option. That is what GM's are paid to do and expected to do if not all the time , certainly some of the time. That is a criticism to date for Ireland.
I never presumed that , I added to that by saying Drew and the Dolphins had discussions about JPP and that according to Rosenhaus the Dolphins did indeed like him as a player. Fair enough that you feel it is not relevant , I think it is.
