this roster has the least amount of talent in the league.

That's not what he's saying at all. Talented players still need to be coached up in the NFL to reach their full potential. Raf is saying that the talent has been here, but now it finally has a chance to be coached up properly. He's saying that if posters cant identify talent (which this team is full of despite our last year's record) then they shouldn't be acting as if they can. We had and still have a young team, and it doesn't take a football genius to know that young talent typically takes some time to develop and fully mature, often up to 3 or 4 years, and considering half our team fell into that category [including 20+ current guys who either start or see significant action], there was absolutely no reason to believe that young, talented, and still developing team [that finished 6-3] wouldn't continue ascending toward its fullest potential with an upgraded coaching staff and a newly acquired franchise QB, among other new draft picks.

yeah, and? There were posters who took all that into consideration when believing last year that this team had a good & talented enough young nucleus to do some damage with moving forward, and that all it needed was an influx of good coaching and a premium QB.

I'm sorry but I disagree with that. We didn't finish last year 6-3 out of dumb luck or b/c we were a bunch of overachievers. We finished 6-3 b/c the team has some talent, and anyone who couldn't see the defense was talented and ascending needs to borrow Mr Magoo's glasses. As far as the other guys go who had yet to emerge, if fans watch them in college then they'd already have an idea of who they are and what their potential might be so that when they start blossoming it's not a crazy shock to them.

 

I was never attacking you or anyone else for their opinions. You felt we were a 9-7/10-6 team then, I felt we were a 5-11 or 6-10 at that time. Those are/were opinions... I wasn't panicky or unreasonable in drafting my opinion, I was looking what I saw and what the players on this team had shown to that point to formulate mine. I guess it doesn't make either of us 'right' as we looked at the facts at hand differently. I try to be 'realistic' with how I view this team. Many now are on the bandwagon that we'll roll over the colts. I don't think so. I think these teams are very evenly matched and they may have more to play for than our guys do (how bad they were last year, the lack of optimism from the national media and now the coach heroically in the recovery stages of cancer. In evenly matched teams, that could be the difference.

The problem with bumping up threads from months ago or last season is just that. Things change, guys develop or digress. Personally, I never even thought of this team being without Davis this season. It just never occurred to me that he was that much of a problem for them and that the right deal would have come along, as it did. So if there had been a thread about trading Davis in August, I would have dismissed it as hogwash, yet it happened and if that thread were bumped back up, I'd have reacted the same way as with this one... As time goes on, we each adjust our opinions. That's not being fair weather or debbie downer, that's just the way it is...

Phins, I know your not a just a blindly loyal homer, nor did I think that in this discussion. That's not what this is about. It's about conditions and situations being fluid...

 

No, we're just a bunch of overachievers, Fin D, and Philbin is making fresh squeezed lemonade out of lemon piss.

 

You goofs really feel some sense of vindication with a 4-3 team??

Hopefully we are in the playoffs THEN you guys can reopen threads and try to sound like hero's.

 

I swear to god, its like every person who was adamantly down on the team, refuses to read and pay attention to the facts....hmmmm

Let's try this another way....

Forget playoffs. Forget weekly honors. Forget standings.

Do we have the LEAST AMOUNT OF TALENT in the league...yes or no?

 

Your asking something that is a matter of opinion....

Why your so emotionally attached to other people's opinion of the talent level on this team is both sad and humorous. What matters is this team is heading in the right direction and in the same year look to have landed a franchise QB and a top notch coach.

But please carry on, I for one would love for you guys to bump these self serving threads every week because that means the W's are adding up.

 

I can understand all that. And I'm concerned about Indy as well for the reasons you meantioned, plus they're playing some scrappy football.

.... and, respectfully, that's exactly why I felt it appropriate to bump the thread. Any premature thread like this didn't need to be created in the first place while we were sitting at 0-0 b/c things, as you noted, do change. I for one don't enjoy reading post after post and thread after thread about how bad we are before a season begins, especially when it's an inspiring season like this one featuring a promising new coach from a successful SB winning organization, an exciting new offensive system, and shiny new 1st round QB. It was impossible for anyone to eat their Chocolate Lucky Charms in peace w/o constantly separating turds from the marshmallows. That alone deserves a few bumped threads.

Much appreciated, Larry. And I agree with you about the fluidity thing.

 

I'm not emotionally attached to the OP's opinion. I'm annoyed people like yourself keep coming on and misstating our stance.

For example, if I kept saying I don't know why Fin-Omenal is on here rooting for the Dolphins, when he's Jets a fan....well that would be a lie and that would annoying after awhile. Just as when we're simply saying we don't have the least amount of talent in the league, and people like you come on and say, "what are you fools getting all excited about we aren't in the play offs!!!" Well no one said we were and that gets annoying after awhile.

Any of this making sense to you?

Oh and no, that is not a matter of opinion. It is a fact we do not have the least amount of talent in the league.

 

"That's a matter of opinion." See, we can do that, too.

So, are we headed in the right direction with the least amount of talent in the league or with a team that looks to actually possess some talent, you putzaroony?

 

How bout a nice pat on the back for standing firm on this teams talent level. I'm glad your right.

 

I've watched plenty of guys with my Mr. Magoo glasses in college that never panned at this level, even tho it seemed they should. No, it wasn't dumb luck that they played well late in the year. In fact, it proved that maybe, just maybe Irish wasn't as bad as a lot thought he was. But the facts are that there were a LOT of question marks on this team in August and how they were going to pan out and whether we had the right talent on this team...That's not just my opinion, that's and echo of opinions of a lot of fans and lot of media folks out there, again...at that time. It's commendable that you didn't feel that way and based on the first 7 weeks, you're right. That still doesn't mean that we have enough talent to continue this improvement and possibly get to the playoffs (although the odds are much better than in August) and that every guy that is playing well now is going to continue to play well, despite better coaching and schemes...

I don't know how what I'm thinking is being this far misconstrued. I'm not saying those that thought that we had enough talent to be a playoff team in August were wrong to have that opinion, but I'm saying that in August, there was reasonable doubt that with a new OC, new DC, unproven rookie QB, new HC who'd never been a HC, and a roster speckled with then-to-fore (Hey, I invented a word) unproven youngsters and several unproven and/or inconsistent vets that we lacked enough talent to get to the playoffs...

 

I didn't say we had the least amount of talent in the league, and if I did it was likely out of frustration of a putrid Pre season performance. I and WE all say a lot of things emotionally. It's like when Marshall drops a pass (Brandon) you get angry and say "man, he sucks". Does he really suck? No. But imagine what a nemrod I would look like for bumping a thread critical of Brandon after every 100 yd game he has just to say "told ya!!"...

I wouldn't do that, but I could. But it's stupid so I don't.

 

Nope. It feels good knowing we're not the Bad News Bears of the NFL, the rejects of the league, as many posters tried to force-feed by the Marion shovel load.
Boo-hoo by the way; heaven forbid you have to put up with a few days of hazing compared to the months of crap you pessimists were dishing out on a daily basis.

 

And congratulations to you....you saw an abundance of talent when no one else did. You are brilliant, we are all stupid...your smart we are not, you are very good looking I am not attractive.

 

I didn't mean that it is your intention.i get your argument, for me though, it goes a bit deeper into the image and perception of the franchise, and trying to help it nurture...I think it's important when we all see something that we believe is not credibly justified relative to the criticism, to debate as best we can..public criticism has impact, if its not researched, it's dangerous.jmo.

 

Weak.

You've argued on here. That means you cared enough to get your opinion across, don't blast people for doing the same.

 

Any thread created within the TOS is acceptable, and encouraged. Whether the poster's opinion is correct or incorrect is irrelevant. Everyone is welcome to share their opinion, no matter what that is.

 

It's only an opinion if you don't want to see the facts.

 

Nobody should have to put up with anything of that sort.

 

I really don't think it's about that, I think its more about trying to get a culture to think a bit differently before everyone posts or speak publicly, it's our team.

 

Completely agree, but I think we're off to a good start, no? Now it falls back on Ireland to continue bringing in talent to take us to that next level and hopefully keep us there. Over our last 16 games, it seems obvious to me that this group plays like a team and seems to be bonded together in the way that teams often were prior to Free Agency. I don't know if that's part of Ireland's doing based on specific types of players he looks for or not, but if it is I hope he keeps it up.

I understand what you're saying and am not admonishing you for it my friend, and I understand it's understandable to form that type of opinion you're referring to about the team back then, but at the same time I'm emphasizing that's all it was--- an opinion, not something concrete or absolute. My opinion just happened to be different.

I just don't think it's fair to say that criticism was warranted to any degree b/c you can't criticize something that hasn't happened yet, and when a team that finished 6-3 is now 0-0 under a new coach, there's no body of work to warrant any criticism. That'd be like me yelling at my wife for burning dinner despite the stove not being turned on. Has she been a good cook in the past? Not really, but she's had some encouraging moments and she did just pay for a cooking class to help coach her up, so I'd be wise to hold off on passing any premature judgement. You wanna have doubt or reservation, that's understandable, but that doesn't equate to warranting criticism.

 

Wins. Will speak much more volume than a poster on a message board.

 

I know that players, execs, and media read message boards.

 

Obviously not. If that were true, we wouldn't be arguing in this thread.

 

Stringer, respectfully, please remove the mod cloak for a minute and realize that many of us on here are friends who haze and tease each other all the time, and I was responding to Fin-O who is my friend and whom does joke around with me in that way and I in return. I never said to do anything that violates the TOS.


Wait a minute, "Nobody should have to put up with that?". Where was that type of defending talk back before the season began when posters optimistic about the season were ridiculed constantly? I don't see anyone in this thread or others acting remotely as cruel in return. What was the type of behavior called when pessimistic posters were frequently dismissing others as homers, apologists, Kool-Aid drinkers, fun club members, or throwing up memes like "cocaine is a hell of a drug"? The list of belittling or skirting the TOS went on and on. Do you know how often we were unprovokingly shown the least amount of respect required by the TOS just b/c we didn't share the same doom & gloom mentality or hatred of Ireland? I'm not saying people should be entitled to run around searching for vindication. I'm simply wondering where this type of compassion was months ago.

 

Phinsational has offended me, and iam extremely upset.

Please kill him.

 

Why? Who is on here after 4 wins saying we have no talent??

 

They were on before we played a freaking game saying we had no talent.

 

You know I'm not blasting you for your opinion...I'm blasting you for pulling the I told you so mantra.

And like I said, people could do what you guys are doing on a million topics on here...even Miami Heat fans showed more humility after winning a title than some of you are for being 4-3....I have pretty thick skin and GL trying to offend me, but with others your just kicking up some dust for the sake of trying to say I told u so.

 

You just said Wins don't speak volumes or we wouldn't be "arguing" in this thread....

And for the record I don't see this as an argument at all rather a good ole fashioned debate on the merits of ppl bumping 2 month old posts.

 

I didn't tell anyone I told you so. i didn't crow. I didn't bump any threads. I didn't rub anything in.

I explained very clearly why I'm in this thread now, you refuse to understand it.

 

You and I wouldn't be arguing in this thread NOW if they mattered.

We have more wins then loses and that proves we aren't least talented team in the league. You think that means we shouldn't say anything because those wins aren't enough.

 

Our disagreement isn't on the fact that this team clearly isn't the least talented team in the league (two admissions now) it is on rather these old threads being bumped are for any good reason. I think it's ridiculous but that's me...

 

I thought we had a Soapbox/Rant forum where opinionated ranting threads are encouraged to be created in rather than taking up space in the mains? So now everyone who has an opinion is encouraged to create a new thread about it rather than posting in a related, existing one?
I created a thread that was neither opinion nor rant and was for the sole purpose of providing factual articles & quotes about our GM so that posters and fans stopping by could have one location to quickly find objective, pertinent info about him w/o having to spend hours perusing through opinionated posts, but it was deemed soapboxy and moved...... but this thread wasn't? C'mon now. I also reported posters who insultingly called myself and others "Ireland apologists, homers, kool aid drinkers, Ireland fan club members, president of the Ireland fan club, etc" and I was told that it's acceptable behavior, so you'll have to excuse my confusion regarding the TOS when I'm told that type of behavior is acceptable but then you're now saying people shouldn't have to put up with that type of stuff.

 

no

 

This team still does lack a lot of talent.

I think anyone that was doubting this team could make a real run at anything tempered that with the asterisk that a lot of young and unproven players would really have to improve greatly to make any kind of run.

Personally for me I think it's a mix.
Some players have stepped up but I also think there is a distinct improvement on the coaching side.
I think they've done really well covering holes and putting in game plans to overcome talent shortfalls.

Season is still young too!

 

In a word....bull****.

We are arguing because you came in and said:

First of all, that says its ok to crow, so you're clearly not against the practice.
Secondly, you ignored the topic of thread and made this about how we can't say anything until we reach the playoffs...which is not the point of the thread...at all.

So, instead of changing the goalposts, just deal with the fact, this topic was revisited.

 

No, by creating this thread, Vinny jinxed it from happening. Don't you get how jinxs work? Vinny is a hero as far as I'm concerned.

 

No, I'm saying that their talent level was high enough that we should have expected about an 8-8 record this year. In fact, that was the prognostication by many here. I did feel that some of those players would play at the level they're playing at now (or better) (Smith, Wake, Pouncey, Incognito, Starks, Soliai, Hartline and Bush). At some positions I looked at the talent and guessed that some would fail and some would succeed, but there was enough talent there that it was likely that someone in that group would step up (the secondary, some 2nd pass rusher, a returner). I thought the LB play was key, but that if healthy, Dansby and Burnett could provide that key coverage ability.

 

I think you would be surprised how many don't.