I asked for you to back up your point and you told me to F off. I was trying to talk football and understand where you were coming from. I have been taking the high road and you can't back up the reasoning with this thread. I'll ask again and we can start over. WHO SHOULD BE STARTING AT RUNNING BACK FOR THE MIAMI DOLPHINS SINCE REGGIE BUSH DOESN'T GET IT DONE FOR YOU? I ask the question and you insult me. All I'm asking for is a good solid educated answer.
You missed the point. The point is that your thread title is basically a trap. It doesn't matter what I expect or think. It's misleading to those who may not know you very well or are new to the site. ."What happened to the running game?" is a question open for debate. However you aren't looking for that at all. You seem to want to form a mob where we chase Reggie with torches and pitchforks while we burn anyone who disagrees at the stake.
Sure I am. The most recent thing I've done to contribute to a healthy debate is ask the question of why, if Reggie Bush's injury is the issue and he's lacking explosion, does he run in a way that 1) fails to recognize the game situation (i.e., needing just one yard to kill the clock), and 2) ultimately requires more explosion of him to make good on the play? That'll be where I let this stand for now. When somebody wants to take a legitimate stab at that, I'll respond. Until then, have at it.
Here's what I said after the Raiders game: I think the bottom line is that Bush isn't that physically gifted right now and he's not really playing appropriately given that.
Translated as the guy is not 100% but is expected to be. He should be getting 300 yards a game dammit.
I can see how you(not saying this in a general sense, I mean you specifically) would be confused. I'm not holding Bush to unrealistic standards. If he is hurt, it's not unreasonable at all for him to not produce particularly well. There isn't any excuse for him to cause problems because he's not healthy and acting like he is. Maybe the first week after his injury, but not the third week in a row when this is a repeated problem.
Right, because you believe an opinion of mine is wrong, then I lose the right to believe yours is. Is that how it works?
WADR, what does being productive (that's a stretch IMO) have to do with opposing defenses having to respect (or lack thereof) our receivers? This circles back to the original question I posed. Are the receivers being "productive" (as you say) b/c of a lack of respect received thanks to more defensive focus shifted toward stopping the run and limiting Reggie?
Your remark that I was "off base as usual" had nothing to do with my opinion of the thread topic. I was comparing how phinsational responds to someone he disagrees with, which you made light of, with how you responded in this thread to someone who questioned you about your opinion. WhiteIbanez said nothing that I noticed that warranted you telling him to "F off".
Production begets respect. Nobody respected Welker b/c he looked so intimidating. They respect him b/c he was productive. Hartline and Bess have shown that they can beat single coverage and catch the ball. Hartline has proven that he can get behind defenders and catch the ball. They have produced.
That's because his post has been removed. Listen, if you disagree with my point of view, that's totally fine, but don't come in here and tell me not to post about a certain topic because it doesn't meet with your approval (jsizzle's tack, post since removed), or act like if I do post on a certain topic, I deserve to be belittled if I can't provide some certain degree of proof of the correctness of my opinion (WhiteIbanez's tack, post since removed). Both of those get F offs from me. If you want to disagree with me respectfully, you'll get nothing of the sort. It's real simple. I'm not here to take a beating, and sometimes people need their **** handed right back to them. You don't like it, well then don't post like an *******.
He's playing his way right into a contract designed for a non-starting running back who makes his living catching passes in space, which is what he was thought to be when he left New Orleans. Personally I think his problem is caused by believing he has the ability to have some kind of "special" career in the NFL based on what he did at USC, and whenever he has some success at running back, like he did earlier this year, it gets to his head and he starts trying to run like Barry Sanders, or like he did in college. His goal of leading the NFL in rushing fits with that. It's a fine goal to have if it doesn't determine what he does to the extent that he neglects what's best for the team, i.e., failing to realize when the team needs just a yard to win a game. I'm not saying he's actually thinking about that goal in those situations, but I am saying his running right now reflects too much of what he wants to do individually on a given play and nowhere near enough appreciation of what the team needs. I'm starting to think it was originally said he couldn't run between the tackles not because he isn't powerful or durable enough, but because he can't run plays as they're designed in that regard unless there's a gaping hole to run through right away. If there isn't that gaping hole, then he destroys the integrity of the play, which involves running between the tackles, far too often.
Bush danced a bit in the first half, but even when he didn't there was no room. Our OL was horrible. We really got to replace both guards. Jerry/Incognito have played poorly most of the year....but today they got manhandled like little boys.
For the pure fun of it, "what happened to the running game" is defenses know Bush is our most impactful player, they put the safety in the box and make it very tough to run. In theory then Tannehill should have a great day, not really, we rarely throw deep passes, which makes THill look efficient but a bit anemic in the Td department as we see. Toss in mediocre guards and we see what we see.
And despite KBs proclamation this is where we need a WR or seam TE that scares teams into leaving their safeties back. I like Hartline and Bess but they are a 2 and a 3.
Right, but how much of that is driven by defensive personnel who are having so much success tackling a guy beind the line of scrimmage, which in turn motivates them and gives them confidence, and a group of offensive linemen who are watching that happen time after time and being demoralized by it? You couldn't design a better recipe for getting your line blown away and demoralized than Reggie Bush's running style right now. He's doing the opposing line favors and doing none for his own.
Not that, the other problem is Tannehill is still a rookie Qb, the whole "get a #1 wr!" stuff would not make a whole lot of difference until THill learns to drive. I doubt we saw a pass go over 30 yds in the air today, maybe the TD to Moore
I am a big line play guy myself. Reggie didn't help.....but the troubles were 60% OL, 20% Bush 5% play calling (no Lane? Really) and 15% a mix of rookie qb with too few passing targets.
I think if you look at the physical play alone, it's easy to attribute 60% of the difficulties to the line, but I think you have to wonder how much of that 60% is driven by the emotional effects, on both our own line and the opposing one, of what Reggie Bush is doing when he has the ball. IMO what he's doing, in terms of the give and take of line play in the trenches, is about like a quarterback's taking lots of sacks instead of getting rid of the ball and throwing it away when he should. Surely you don't think a high number of sacks has no emotional effects on both lines and how they play physically. Sometimes you have to get rid of the ball instead of taking a sack, and sometimes you need to run in a way that gets you no gain or a very small gain instead of taking a loss. Both sacks and tackles for losses are momentum-builders for one team, and demoralizers for the other. If I'm an offensive lineman trying to win the battle I'm having all day long with the guy lining up across from me, the last thing I'm gonna wanna do is break the huddle and come line up across from that guy after he just tackled my running back, who reversed field completely and pretty much embarrassed himself and me, for a five-yard loss. Reggie Bush isn't helping these guys win the emotional battle in the trenches, which in turn affects the physical one and vice-versa.
It's almost like you're saying their production is conditional to an extent, and if that's so, then how productive is "productive" really? Was it a part of our game plan to intentionally have Hartline not catch any balls vs St Louis? To me, production can be a relative term.
I think Hartline's production is exactly what was responsible for his performance yesterday. Obviously the Rams gameplanned to stop him, which in turn was what allowed the only long touchdown pass of ours on the day, the one to Marlon Moore. That TD, points-wise, was the difference in the game, so you could argue that Hartline's production in weeks prior was actually largely responsible for the win. Now, wait till you have Hartline on one side, Bess in the slot, a guy who can better burn teams long on the other, and a quarterback who isn't a rookie and can be trusted to throw downfield all day. And that guy who can burn teams long doesn't have to be a star IMO. He can simply be a guy with great speed who can blow by a corner in a one-on-one matchup.
Your stretching in my opinion. These guys were already emotional with the huge sack game they had prior. They sold out to stop Reggie and this team simply had no reply to it. I really don't see any of our backs doing anything in this game. I question if Lane could even pick up those 1 yarders the way the Rams played today.
Pass protection was better than run blocking today. Running block was atrosiously bad. Bush is our legitimate HR hitter since early RW days with us. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
2 sacks and at least 1 fumble + 3 direct hits. That doesn't even include pressures. Tanny was the man today standing in that pocket taking hits and taking what he could. Marino wouldst lost his cool at this OL a few times. Edit: god bless auto correct on my android for turning tanny into Tammy.
What? Because of his knee hurting and a few mediocre outings he's a crappy running back? Did you forget that he was basically the best running back in the NFL the second half of last season? It's a 16 game season and we have 10 more games to go! Hel...If it was up to you Matt Moore would be starting. Not sure that i'm going to take too many things you post seriously. I guess now that Tannehill has improved it's time to flame Reggie right? Our offense is horrible without him...Just see the second half of the Jets game three weeks ago.
It also seems like teams are really just blitzing us to the max, which has hurt the running game. During the bye week we really need to work on some blitz busting plays. That screen that we ran with Reggie right up the middle of the field was amazing, we need more and more of that. I think that has to be one of Tannehill's check off plays. It seems like Tannehill is reading the blitz well, but we just dont have the play available to check off to that is going to beat that blitz.
This team doesn't operate via drive blocking. It operates via zone blocking where the onus is on the running back to quickly find the hole and make one cut and hit it. If that hole isn't there, then the running back needs to take whatever is.
Actually I would recommend you put me on ignore and disregard my posts completely if you're going to misunderstand what I'm saying to this extent and reply with posts consisting of straw man arguments. I suspect we'd both be better off.
The stats you posted aren't anything extraordinary. They certainly don't support the notion that Tannehill was succumbing to heavy-duty pressure in the way Bush was, by playing in an ill-advised manner.
Well I'm not going by stats either...I'm going by my eyes and the fact we completed one pass over 15 yards and threw a lot of short stuff. The OL blew donkey *****.
Absolutely correct - with this proviso. Bush needed to realize that there are going to be games when the only thing you can do is take what is there. Instead, he seemed to want to manufacture yardage going east and west. This IS the NFL.. that is not going to happen anywhere near as much as we would like to think. He was virtually stopped, then had to change directions and accelerate laterally when everyone on the D is already at full speed forward (i.e., toward the play.) The success Bush has had between the tackles has been when a crease opened up in the blocking and he was able to burst through it at virtually full speed or near it. Those three seconds which elapse between the snap, the handoff, and the realization that the line is all tied up and there is no gap to run into is more than enough time to have all of the rest of the D filling in or closing, and not enough time for Bush to change direction and get to speed himself. It almost looked as if the Rams expected almost every running play. Which leads me to think that our O-Coord needed to bust out a few play action type calls. I may be wrong, but it seemed every call was either clearly a pass, or when Tannehill was under center, clearly a run, except the TD play action down close. That leads me to think that the coaching staff is not clearly operating as smoothly together as we would wish, but the staff is as new as our QB. Here's hoping that they all get it together sometime soon.
And this is virtually the entire argument coming from me. This isn't USC, and he ain't Barry Sanders. When this is especially problematic is when the team needs just one yard to continue to kill clock and win a game, and Reggie Bush can't adjust the style you're talking about to simply GET that one yard. That's a major problem IMO, and it's what signals to me that his "injury" is not the real issue here; it's his mentality.
I think its important too though to remember, that's not his real strength. Lowering his shoulders and plowing through a pile isn't Reggie Bush. That's Daniel Thomas. That's why he's here. Of course, he's hurt... again. I know many others have pointed that out I believe. Reggie is part to blame here, no doubt about it, too much hesitation. Is that due to being banged up still? Maybe. Due to having no holes to run through, well... from what I saw Sunday, its more so the later. There was no running room out there at all for him, then he tries to make things happen, which doesn't always work for him obviously. If were sitting here trying to distribute blame, from what I saw yesterday, its about 70% OL, 30% Reggie. Why Lamar Miller didn't get any carries though is beyond me. To me, it was obvious that the Rams gameplan on D was to shut down the run, and make Tannehill beat them. We've seen that game plan alot against us this year already. Because of that, you're going to get days where there's just no room to run. So as others have said, you've then got to throw in some play action, and hope one of the DB's bite and you can get some seperation down field since our WR's can't seem to do that on their own regularly. Since we can't do that, its the short, quick passing game that we saw yesterday that has to happen, which is unfortunate, but it is what it is IMO until we get a WR that can consitently get open down field. So, bottom line... Does Reggie dance to much in the backfield? Yes. Did the OL get dominated up front yesterday when run blocking? Yes. Did the Rams do a good job plugging up running lanes? Yes. Does that leave your one cut backs with many holes to run through? No. Does that lead a guy like Reggie to look for opportunities to make something happen? Yes. As I said, I think if were going to try and fix it, it starts with the OL doing a better job up front, and then a gameplan offensively that will stop letting teams play run against us all day. It's tough to do that though with a rookie QB, and WR's who consistently struggle to get open down field. Short passes, they are there for us all day. We've got to do a better job getting the ball down field through the air, which then IMO, means we need more talented WR's. Until we do that, or until someone at WR steps up, I think we're going to see much of the same from the running game this year. Tannehill has been impressive, but there's nothing there so far that makes me come in to game plan against our offence and think RT can beat me. Reggie and the ground game can beat me. He showed that with his production last year, and the first few games this year. So, I set up my D game plan to shut down the run. It's really that simple as to whats going on here.
