Don't get me wrong, I'm not slighting Chris Long in the least, and I agree with most all you're saying. I'd love to have Long or anyone with his potential in aqua & orange, and the reduced rookie wage scale like you alluded makes a few years of development significantly more palatable. I'm just not sure if Werner quite has Long's potential, and to me they're very similar in play, style, motor, heart, tenacity, etc. I don't think Werner will go in the top 5, and b/c of that I do believe he is a slightly lesser version of Long, although I do see the similarities to Watt that you're referring to (but I see more Long than Watt for the simple fact that Watt's sheer size and length put him in a different class IMO). I had a huge man-crush on Watt pre-draft, said it wouldn't surprise me if he was a top 5 pick, and represented the main defensive guy I would've wanted us to draft if he fell to 15. IMO it's a testament to how amazing the talent atop the 2011 draft was in order to push Watt to #11. Ideally, a JJ Watt, Calais Campbell, or Star Lotuleili is what I believe would serve us best at LDE with a quality hybrid SOLB next to him who can rush the passer in nickel and blitz & stop the run in base so that we'd have the personnel to run a hybrid defense rather than drafting a traditional 4-3 DE that basically pigeonholes us into a 4-3 with little hybrid potential. If I had my choice, I'd have our defense flexible & versatile enough to combine what Atlanta and Houston do by utilizing 5 coverage guys in base verse passing teams (ala Atlanta), have the flexibility at OLB to rush 5 at will (ala Houston), but be stout enough on the Dline to shut down the run like Seattle. The only difference is I'd have the extra cover guy be a 3rd safety rather than a 3rd corner. We could match up well verse any scheme/personnel with that type of personnel IMO. I guess that's basically what Seattle is capable of now that they have Irvin and an outstanding secondary. They have 670 pounds of beef at LDE & DT, but it's not hurting their ability to apply pressure, so I don't see Odrick, Starks, and Soliai being our main problem for any lack of pressure. IMO the difference is Seattle has Bruce Irvin and Jason Jones added to Chris Clemons, along with a great secondary that buys more time to get after the QB. Personally, I believe Star Lotuleili would be ideal for us at LDE to maintain a hybrid defense, with Odrick moving inside to DT (or in rotation with Starks & Soliai). If 325 pound Red Bryant is a handful at LDE in Seattle's scheme, then Lotuleili would be a menacing nightmare with Odrick & Soliai to his right and a hybrid OLB like Chase Thomas or Sean Porter on the other side. How would an offense block something like that? Who would you double team? Or better question--- how would you stop the guys who aren't being doubled b/c at least 1 defender would be left isolated, no? I know we need a pass rusher, but in my humble opinion Lotuleili would have the biggest impact on our defense based on where our strengths currently lie, and IMHO the combination of Lotuleili & Chase Thomas would have a bigger impact on both phases of the game than a traditional DE like Werner by himself. IMO what would do our defense best is: a. sign CB Aqib Talib in FA b. draft DE/DT Lotuleili if we could trade up for him w/o it costing the farm c. draft safety hybrid McDonald or FS Vaccaro (or your guy of choice) d. draft OLB hybrid Chase Thomas or Sean Porter. We'd look very similar to Seattle on paper regarding talent, flexibility, and versatility.
No thanks on drafting a DT with our first pick. Anyone think Dallas drafts a QB in April? Romo is just bad.
why? You wouldn't want a guy of Ngata's similar ability and talent level on our Dline if we can't re-sign Starks or don't want to b/c of cost? I know you've seen how Seattle's front 4 + added pass rushers can take over a game, and Red Brant is a big reason for that.... and we've seen Baltimore's dline with 2 340+ pounders take over games, too, thanks greatly to Ngata.... and neither of those teams are hampered in pass rush ability b/c of all that size up front. IMO Lotuleili is athletic enough and high enough motored to move to DE and be entrenched as the defensive franchise player for the next 10+ years. ... or is it that you don't like Star?.... or both?
I have no problem with Star but I don't intend to lose Randy Starks and Paul Soliai is already here, and with Jared Odrick also here then to get a Star Lotuleili at the top of the Draft would be severe, severe overkill. Especially when they actually have a solid depth player in Kheeston Randall. Not even close to on board with that.
He'd actually be a DE/DT just like Red Bryant and Ngata are. Are you against a disruptive impact player who can greatly impact the course of a game from the trenches, push the pocket, stuff the run, and wreake havoc behind the LOS? If we lose Starks, we'll either need a replacement or we'll need a DE to replace Odrick who would be moving to DT. What would you rather have? A full time 4-3 DE who prevents us from running a versatile hybrid defense or would you rather have a guy like Ngata or Red Bryant paired with a hybrid OLB pass-rusher like Barwin, Irvin, Matthews, or Miller who gives us the versatility to bounce around between 3-4 and 4-3 based on opponent or situation? IMO if you can land a Ngata type player, you take him. Not to mention if you have a huge freak like Lotuleili at DE, it will always be easier to find a decent 2nd round hybrid OLB to compliment him and serve as the nickel pass rusher than it is to find an outstanding traditional 4-3 DE, let alone a 2nd one once Wake retires since those guys aren't easy to find. IMO, personnel-wise, we're more geared to becoming a Seattle-esque hybrid defense than a Giants 4-3.
If we resign Starks then I would be strongly against it because we also have Odrick who fits that mold of 4-3 DT. We need an elite pass rusher to go with Wake. I don't think Odrick playing end or Vernon is the answer.
I don't intend to or want to lose Starks either, but if he keeps it up he's going to make himself quite expensive and in high demand, and someone else might outbid us for his services. If that happens, the last thing I'd want to see is our Dline go from being outstanding and a team strength (one of the best in the league) to just being good and lacking depth, so I personally wouldn't hesitate to draft Star if we find ourselves w/o Starks. If we retain Starks, then I agree, it could be viewed as overkill. I don't think we'll be in position to draft Star in the first place, so all of this is likely a moot point.
IMO there's nothing wrong with Odrick playing end if we add a hybrid OLB pass rusher to compliment him. That way, if our coverage is good enough, we can always rush 5 or blitz him while still remaining stout vs the run in an attempt to make opposing offenses 1 dimensional. I mean, do 3-4 or hybrid teams like the Packers, Ravens, and Seahawks have trouble bringing pressure despite having 3 big boys up front at LDE, DT, NT with a combined weight over 900 pounds? Packers at 975 pounds. Baltimore, 965 to 985. Seattle, 960. Miami, 950. Jets, 945. Chiefs, 940. Pitt, 915-930. Denver, 910. San Fran, 905. Zona, 905. Right now we rank 7th in sacks with 12 (tied with Seattle) and we don't even have a quality pass rusher/hybrid OLB to compliment Wake & Odrick. Zona is 2nd with 16, and GB is tied for 3rd with 14.
I love Odrick, you can go back and find posts were I stated I think he would be a good 4-3 DE and would get over 10 sacks (or something like that). That being said, he is better at rushing from the interior. Starks is also good at rushing for the DT position. If we want to improve the pass rush get Jarvis Jones, enough said. He is the premier pass rusher this year as far as I am concerned (he is better than Mingo, who is overrated IMO). Why not address the problem head on instead of "hoping" a DT can play DE.
I don't see an issue with Odrick at end, but I don't think you keep him there on pass downs. You slide him to the inside and bring in another end. I think that's what Miami was hoping to get with Vernon like Seattle has gotten with Irvin replacing Red Bryant.
The issue I have with it is that you're tiring Odrick out in a role where he could easily be replaced by a less valuable player. I think people take that kind of thing for granted, just figuring that what a guy gives you on one snap is what he gives you on all the snaps. It just doesn't work that way though. Odrick has participated in as many pass rush snaps as Cameron Wake. That's a problem for me. It also affects Randy Starks. Jared Odrick leads all DLs with 248 snaps, where Wake has 243 snaps and Starks has 224 snaps. Because Odrick is playing so many snaps at DE, he is unavailable to be rotated more actively with Randy Starks at DT. Because of that, taking Randy Starks off the field means putting Tony McDaniel or Kheeston Randall on the field, and that's a much bigger step down. Look no further than the 4th & 10 play where the Cardinals tied up the ball game to go into overtime. After 9 plays on that final drive, even though the drive was broken up by a timeout, and there had been three straight clock stoppages prior to that 4th down play, the entire DL was gassed on that 4th & 10 play. Odrick was so gassed he tried to execute a clumsy spin move and then fell to the ground. Randy Starks stunted with Cam Wake and showed no life as he was picked up. Would they have had more energy if there was a more active rotation going on during the game? There's no guarantee but it stands to reason. I just don't understand wasting a guy's stamina having him go out there and play a position that some far lesser talented player could play just as well. Odrick is not getting any pass rush from the end spot whatsoever. He's a good run stopper there. Would even a guy like Kheeston Randall be any less of a run stopper if you put him at end? Wouldn't that keep Odrick more fresh, while also allowing for more active rotation with Starks, and therefore keeping him more fresh as well?
Shouldnt Soliai be rotating out on passing downs anyways. So other then rest, why would Starks be going off the field for those two very often?
You already said it. Rest. If you had some other oversized run defender playing End in place of Odrick then you could have Starks and Odrick share reps in base defensive packages and then have both players come on the field in pass packages, and thus you keep both players fresher.
Soliai isn't a bad pass rusher in his own right, we would be fine leaving him in there. That being said, Starks and Odrick are better at it. We are set a DT for a couple years. It's probably our greatest asset right now.
It all depends on how you look at it. If you want to run a hybrid defense where you have greater versatility, then you'd want a DT/DE hybrid who can play DE in base to shut down the run while moving inside as an effective nickel pass rusher. If you'd rather run a traditional 4-3 where your LDE limits your hybrid potential, then you'd go with a traditional DE. Yes, the problem is that we need more of a pass rush (we're also lacking in coverage), but there's no rule saying the pass rush has to come from a full time DE or that a team can only be effective applying pressure if the they have 2 elite DEs. If you want to put in a full time LDE who is better vs the pass, then you potentially create a new problem by no longer being able to make teams 1 dimension b/c we won't be the same force against the run, so there's a trade-off involved. There's a reason that Seattle and us are outstanding vs the run, and it's b/c we have 3 big bodies up front that can shut it down. Does that make us unable to apply pressure and be solid against the pass? It sure didn't seem like it when I watched Aaron Rodgers against them. It hasn't stopped Seattle and us from allowing the 7th & 8th best QBR (75.5 & 77.9), and it hasn't prevented us both from ranking 7th in sacks despite Miami having 1 bonafide traditional pass rusher. Personally, I'd rather not open a whole new can of worms considering the scheme and way we're doing things is already effective. I'd rather take what we currently have and make it even more effective by improving upon it by simply adding more complimentary talent. We can draft an extra pass rusher just like Seattle did with Bruce Irvin and GB did with Nick Perry, then add another corner and perhaps a FS to improve our secondary. If you want to go after Jarvis Jones, that's fine b/c he'd be a complimentary piece considering he's a hybrid type player, where as going with a tradition, full-time LDE doesn't necessarily compliment what we currently do or have; it changes what we currently do. The Ravens, Seahawks, Niners, Texans, Packers, Steelers, and Cards don't utilize a traditional full-time 4-3 DE, and it doesn't hurt them. The top 4 scoring defenses (and 7 of the top 10) are all hybrid defenses who use either a DT or oversized DE at LDE.
Exactly. That allows us to shut down the run and make offenses 1 dimensional, and if we actually had an extra pass rusher like Irvin and an upgraded secondary, we'd be much better verse the pass.
What far lesser talented player could do what the 1st rounder Odrick is doing for us? Will a far lesser talent allow us to remain the #1 rush D in both yards & ypc? Let's say you get someone to replace him at LDE in normal base D. You'd want to essentially cut Starks, Odrick, and Soliai's snaps by a third just to get a lesser talent on the field? Personally, I think it'd be a waste to a have a 1st round talent like Odrick on the team if you're gonna limit him to a situational player or a guy who splits time in a rotation. Ditto goes for Starks who's playing at an impact level, and considering Soliai should never be off the field in base D since he leaves it in nickel, that would mean you're completely splitting time between Starks & Odrick in base D, and that doesn't make any sense to me, and I certainly wouldn't limit those 2 that much just to preserve a few snaps. If you think he's a potential liability by being on the field tired, then what kind of a liability is it when our top 3 big boys aren't on the field together for a ton of snaps? Sorry, but I'm of the mindset that you play your best players on the field. As we add another effective pass rusher, that should help rest Odrick & Starks by allowing them to split duty in nickel rather than both constantly being on the field in it. Currently, we're #1 vs the run in a big way, 8th in QBR allowed, and 7th in sacks...... and we're doing it with 1 only traditional pass rusher and a secondary that could use a few upgrades. Why do we need to make Odrick & Starks into rotational/situational type guys when we can instead draft a decent pass rusher and initially make him the situational guy so that Odrick & Starks won't have to spend so much time on the sideline in base D when we need them the most? Our base D needs to be Odrick-Starks-Soliai so that we can continue to be #1 verse the run. The problem, and the reason they're not getting some rest is b/c Starks & Odrick are both having to stay on the field in nickel [rather than rotating in nickel] b/c we lack the extra pass rusher to allow them a breather. So, our priorities would be: A. keep our #1 run D intact, which means a base D of Odrick, Starks, Soliai, Wake (or either a quality DT or DE/DT hybrid to replace Odrick at LE or Starks at DT in case we're unable to re-sign Starks) B. add an great situational pass rusher who can:1. rush the passer in nickel 2. allow Starks & Odrick to rotate in nickel by freeing up Vernon & Shelby 3. spell Wake at times to give him some rest 4. potentially be groomed to eventually take over for Wake as the starting DE, allowing Wake to then become the situational pass rusher/rotational guy. (that's if the pass rusher is a true DE rather than OLB/hybrid)C. Upgrade the secondary to not only provide better coverage and more TOs but to create more coverage sacks than we currently get.
I don't agree with that. The strength of Odrick, Soliai, and Starks is having them together in base D where they combine to form the #1 rushing D in the NFL in dominant fashion. It would weaken us to keep them off the field in base just so they could spend more time on the field in nickel. It make more sense and is significantly more effective to keep the trio as they are in base defense and find a decent pass rusher to rotate in during nickel to provide the breather you speak of. I mean, we're not lacking in run defense to need another big bodied DT/DE; we're lacking pass rush depth. So lets bring in just that-- another pass rusher. It just doesn't make sense to hinder the strength of our defense (run D in base offense) in order to let them play more vs the pass. Like I said, IMO the easiest way to address this is to find an OLB hybrid who compliments our current guys and scheme rather than trying to change/alter it. That way he can provide the situational pass rush ability we need but also see a significant number of snaps as the SLB of the future in our base D (or least in rotation at OLB). The Seahawks addressed the same issue by signing Jason Jones in FA and drafting Bruce Irving. Green Bay addressed it signing Philip Merling and drafting Nick Perry.
I tell you what, DeAndre Hopkins is looking faster & stronger this year. He's really come into his own, is running great routes, showing tons of awareness, plucking everything in sight with strong hands (even contested throws), and making plays after the catch..... and his body control is outstanding. He's been more clutch than Sammy Watkins the past few games. I doubt he comes out this year but if he does he's working his way into the 2nd round and climbing.
I thought the same thing watching the Clemson FSU game. While Watkins gets all the hype Hopkins is pretty damn good in his own right. When he took the first ball to the house he was so fast I thought it was Watkins for a second...
he was even better this week, displaying some impressive hand strength vs a linebacker to haul in a contested pass on 3rd down that I thought he had no business catching. He finally dedicated himself to strength and conditioning this offseason; with another one like that he might sneak into the 1st round. Too bad we have enough running backs b/c Ellington would be a great fit in our offense IMO.
Anyone just see the TD by Stedman Bailey that put WVU up 41-38? What a route.... and the way he sensed the safety (who was almost out of peripheral view) to quickly sidestep him and settle down in the soft spot over the middle for the catch. He made it look easy. I don't think we have anyone who could've done that.
I didn't see that play, but I am kind of hoping Hopkins comes out this year. I would love to grab him in the early second. If we could somehow get him and Bailey I would be thrilled to death. Them two plus Hartline and Bess and wow... Also Geno Smith is going to be a top 5 pick this upcoming year barring anything crazy. He is pretty damn good and I am sure RG3's success is going to help him out.
IMO Smith might be a better pure passer than RG3 and I could see him going #1 overall if the Chiefs or Raiders had the pick...... but I still like Griffin better overall. I'd take Smith over Barkley without hesitation though. Definitely in agreement on Bailey and/or Hopkins. Both would be an ideal fit in our system IMO and would contribute early don't you think. I'd love to have both of them but my combination of choice (if we don't grab anyone in FA) would be either Bailey or Hopkins + Da'Rick Rogers (to provide us that much-needed physical presence). IMO Hopkins is just like a shorter AJ Green with the silky smoothness, outstanding hands, route running, awareness, and body control.... where as Bailey has more of the Percy Harvin suddenness to his game, and I'm not sure which I'd prefer TBH. Having all 3 (Rogers, Hopkins, and Bailey) would be a phenomenal compliment to each other IMO. I still like Keenen Allen the best since he's like a combination of Bailey & Hopkins, but at 6'3. I really want a pass usher or perhaps Milliner with our 1st pick, but part of me is hoping Allen is the top talent on the board when we pick.
..... and just when I thought Oregon's attire couldn't get any uglier. You know the uniform bling is getting out'a hand when you can no longer discern the gold teeth among all the reflective crap. lol
It's amazing what Oregon's done w/o a top 20 draft class since at least 2006. I guess it just goes to show the impact on success that great coaching and finding the right personnel to fit your system have.
Personally, I still like Barkley over Geno Smith. Barkley is my number 1 pick without question. Yeah, I could see Hopkins and Bailey making big contributions in year one. While I would like to have those 3 WRs I can only see us using 2 early picks on WR and honestly I am not sure how much we "need" that physical presence in our WCO. While I like Keenen Allen I don't think he will represent the best value to us where I think we will be picking. I think Ireland is all about value and would rather draft a WR in the 2nd and 3rd than the 1st. I could see us going with a CB or DE/OLB in round one though.
Got to question their decision to let Glennon have all day back there. While you think your front 4 would dominate their OL, you could have brought additional pressure because they weren't getting it done. That's the reason EJ Manuel pisses me off so much, he can be lights out and look like a top pick in the Clemson game to looking like this.
Say what you will but me and a lot of other young people love their uniforms. Im sure it helps them in recruiting too.
And speed lol. I honestly hate Oregon for some reason though. I guess when I watch them the game losses its "football feel". Ironically, I am a fan of Chip Kelly. Any coach that uses statistical analysis is a winner in my book.
To each his own about the QB, right. Barkley's certainly no slouch. Agree about the rest. Sorry, I didn't mean for it to sound like we should take all 3 receivers, only that they seem like they'd make for the perfect complimenting trio IMO. I'm not sure either that we'll be picking high enough for Allen to represent best value, but if we go on a little run soon, Allen could be close to the BPA range. IMO he's a hair better receiver than Milliner or Amerson are at corner.
I didn't mind the one tonight after seeing it for a bit; it actually started to grow on me, but I'd prefer to have a few set uniforms and that's it. I'm more about tradition when it comes to them.
I don't like them simply b/c they're often the late but it's usually a blow out and I lose interest by halftime. I love what Kelly does in that regard, too. Over the past few years I've thought pre-season, "maybe this is the year they drop 5 games", but it just doesn't happen.
Yeah, I just favor pocket passers more than scramblers. I'm a big fan of Barkley, but that's nothing against Smith. They would all complement each other really well, but I don't know if we would roll the dice on Da'Rick Rogers. I don't think he fits the mold we want, especially based on Philbin's first draft here. Just curious but where do you see the Dolphins drafting? I think we will be drafting top 10, if I had to guess a number I would say about #9. I still haven't watched Keenan Allen enough to have a real opinion about him, but based off my limited viewing I would say he is around a 10-15 pick now (like I said, limited viewing, its hard catching those west coast games). I like Milliner a good deal and Jonathan Banks has looked pretty damn good too (Props to KB21). Mississippi State has been lights out on defense. I am not that high on Amerson though.
I think there's a good chance we end up in the 10-12 range barring injury setbacks considering we could very easily be 3-1 right now. IMO Allen is absolutely perfect for this offense, to the point I'd have a hard time passing on him if we address corner in FA and provided the draft is deep enough at pass rusher to trade up our first 2nd rounder and still get an impact player. Share your sentiments about Milliner. Hard for me to not have a man crush on his all around play. Haven't seen enough of Banks. I'm not sold on Amerson either, especially not over Milliner.... but then again he hasn't had Dee's coaching. I wonder how much that makes a difference in these 2 players.
