Lamar Miller vs Daniel Thomas

There was loads of discussion about pad level and him running too upright on this forum after he was drafted.

It strikes me as an attempt to use his lack of success in short yardage as indicative of something more than it is.

 

Well, I was definitely part of that small minority. Ck, I've read some of yours views on him since and I've totally agreed. Actually, I started one of the first debates about Thomas and his issues right after he was drafted when I believe it was Con who posted some vids of him. I saw a back who ran very upward and didn't have nearly the strength nor power some people were assuming he had. He wasn't able to push the pile much. I actually thought his best quality was receiving. He seemed to be very good and have a natural ability doing so. Unfortunately, he wasn't used that way and we never had a chance to really see what he can do in that regard and I understand that's not why he was drafted, but it can be an important part of any backs repertoire. I especially did not like trading up for him and made that point clear when we drafted him. He did show some good vision and a decent ability to locate and dart through some small running lanes, but even then, I felt like I was clutching at straws to find something positive about the pick. He's going to have to seriously improve or you can chalk that one up to a bad pick. Also, I had Miller rated as the 3rd best RB of the class. so you know how I feel about this debate. Now, that's good value for a back, so I guess it kind of balances out for lil' Jeffy. It's early. I'm not going to jump the gun on this one, but..........

 

had him making the team only based on what he flashed on kickoffs.

 

It's weird his YPR is so high, it seems like every return he's getting downed at the 20. Maybe I forgot a few decent ones?

 

You need to start gettin thiggy with Alex.your forgetting a lot.

 

He often runs them out from about 5 yds deep. A 27 yard return in that case would be to the 22 yd line.

 

Other than the injuries, I'm not down on DT. I see him as a good back. However, the Oakland game is the first time I saw enough in Miller to make me think he could be a very good back. I think he has more upside than DT. Going forward, I would probably look to split the load between Bush, DT and Miller with Bush getting the bulk and DT and Miller splitting the balance. I really like our depth at RB.

 

To split the load three ways I think you have to have a reason. Is Lamar Miller going to crumble under the weight of potentially 10 or 12 touches a game? Is there something he can't do that Daniel Thomas does much better? If the answers to those questions are both no, then you give the second fiddle role to the better ball carrier and all around player.

 

I'd say Thomas is a much better pass protector. The question is how much do we value that, and can Miller improve in that regard.

 

That makes sense and when I think about it is very accurate.

 

At this point I don't see the second answer as "no". I think DT is a better pass blocker and route runner. Also I'm not just thinking about one game. The nature of the RB position is such that I expect that they'll be dinged up at different points. One back may also just be hot against a certain team. I see an advantage to having all those guys fresh and in sync with the offense should such situations arise.

 

Better? Yes. Much better? Not sure yet. Haven't seen enough reps from Lamar Miller to conclude that. I know he had one gaffe against the Raiders but I saw Daniel Thomas get his quarterback killed in the first two weeks of his rookie season as well, particularly as I recall one rep against the Houston Texans in Week 2.

But as a testament to how marginal this advantage is even if there is a significant one, Reggie Bush is an absolutely atrocious pass protector. He's about to be our bell cow back.

 

Better pass protector, yes. But a significantly better one? Again we haven't seen the reps to make that claim. As I stated Daniel Thomas also got his QB killed in pass pro at least one time in his first few games as a rookie. Lamar Miller actually looked good in pass pro in the preseason.

As for route runner, I think that's nuts. Lamar Miller is a much better receiving threat. You can line him up in the slot and have him catch passes. You can't do that with Daniel Thomas.

 

I think that Miller has shown more upside, but there's still value in having him split time and learn. If his development continues, I can certainly see him passing DT. I could even see him making Bush expendable after the season (not nec. my choice, but it's possible). But at this point, I still see value in having DT carry part of the load. I see him as a far better pass blocker than Bush. At best, Miller's pass blocking is an unknown. I agree that there probably isn't enough tape to form a conclusion. I'd be more comfortable going with the known until we have more tape.

 

Thing is, DTrain is not a power back, not at all, he is more of a Freeman McNeil type, a slasher with good hands and all around skills.

Miller is less than a year removed from a shoulder injury, putting him in pass pro is not a recipe for him to last the season.

Ironic that in a so called passing league, clearly our strongest unit is running backs.

 

Being a huge Hurricane fan I can tell you Miller was hardly ever asked to block, and when he was you generally saw why. I believe PFF had D-Train ranked very highly as a pass blocker last season so I'd be inclined to say he is much better at this point than Miller.

I'd say his inexperience even at the college level blocking should tell you he has a learning curve in that department.

 

I think DT has some definite skills and shows some promise of becoming a good back. However, I always have an uneasy feeling when he's carrying the ball with regards to ball security. He seems to have a penchant for fumbling at the most inopportune times.

 

Hardly any tailback is asked to block in college. It's just not a popular thing to do. Coaches only get so many hours with their players and it's not important enough. I witnessed guys live in Shrine practices be absolutely terrible in pass protection and then one training camp later in their rookie seasons they're pass protecting like a boss for a pro team. It's not something you project from college to pro, it's just not worth the effort.

 

I think there's just this reluctance because if you have Daniel Thomas #3 and he's not sharing the load then you're "giving up" on him. Well, A) So what, that's the way these things happen when there's someone better then it sucks for you but is best for the team, and B) It's not really giving up on the guy anyway because injuries happen and you can bet he'll make a triumphant return to the football field somewhere down the road.

 

I'm starting to think I'd rather have Steve Slaton on this team over Daniel Thomas.

 

I will say DT has responded well since I typed this, lol.

 

Daniel Thomas sucks. Yet another 2nd round bust. Lamar should be ahead of him on the depth chart next game if these coaches are any good at their job.

 

Miller doesn't know and execute his play book as well as DT from what I see.

And yet Miller is STILL the better option.

 

Since I voted, I am leaning more toward Miller as the rushing running back, but I still think Thomas is better during passing situations. I was never a fan of the Thomas pick as I stated over and over in the draft thread, but he does do a better job in pass protection than Miller. However, with Miller we are more likely not to be put in those 3rd and long situations (just like with Bush)... so, I would like to change my vote, but I can't.

 

Its really quite simple .Thomas can block and Miller cannot which is why we didnt see much of Miller in the later stages of the game.

 

Unfortunately for Thomas, he's a runningback, not an offensive lineman. He's a runningback that can't run. That far outweighs whatever use he might have blocking.

 

It's quite possible for a runningback to end a game with more snaps in pass protection than rush attempts. It's part of the job, and is one of the most significant factors keeping rookies off the field.

 

Not me.

 

Says the guy on the message board.

I kid, I kid. I think.

 

Slaton has his own skeletons in the closet as far as fumbles are concerned. However during the preseason he showed more aptitude for the cutback game than Thomas.

 

That's still irrelevant if the running back in question is abysmal at his primary job. And Daniel Thomas is an abysmal runner. I've never seen a 230+ lb RB go down so easily.