What is your impression of Jeff Ireland as a GM ?

I'll play revisionist Gm, RG3 would of been a dolphin..1st option was trading up for RG3..pick up Dwayne Allen and Devon Wylie a bit later, and we're off and running..

 

Not forced to trade down. You could have chosen staying on that spot and either end up starting some bad players, or clearing salary cap space in the near-term at the expense of the long-term.

 

It's easy for me to back a winner.

 

Re-signing Langford would result in an increase in the teams cap number unless you are restructuring someone.

 

My scenario didn't propose resigning him. My scenario said we would've had E. Thomas + Langford in 2010 and 2011. In 2012 we would have E. Thomas + cheap edge setting DE (if that's what Ireland and Co. prefer)

Edge Setting 4-3 DEs are cheap and could easily do what Jared Odrick does. (Which I'm against by the way).

 

Throughout the history of sports, coaches and GMs who did not win were fired because that was considered overwhelming evidence of incompetence. That is the way they are compared to other coaches and GMs.

That is why Shula was here for 25 years and Cam Cameron for one.That is why Randy Mueller was fired by JI's mentor.

Why the Hell is that different for Jeff Ireland?

 

Would you say it should be different for Ireland if it's true he hasn't been responsible for the reasons the team hasn't won?

 

Why wasn't he responsible? The "there's no evidence" argument is one of the silliest things ever, and reflects a basic lack of knowledge about what evidence is...

He gets no pass for following Parcells' plan and not winning enough,just like Tony got no pass for following Parcells' 1980's style football and not winning enough.

Or did I miss something, and Tony is still here?

 

I think your perspective could very well result in a "ready, fire, aim" approach to resolving this team's problems, all in the name of having a scapegoat.

 

That's the way sports works.


But even if we don't look at his record:

Do we want a guy picking players who has no experience doing so for a 4-3 or a West Coast Offense?

Who talks about having Parcellian minimum size criteria for every position, a system that misses on guys like Zach Thomas and Jason Taylor? Pass.

 

He has picked completely out of the Parcells blueprint since Parcells has been gone. That's one of the pieces of evidence "we who don't understand evidence" have been pointing to.

 

I blame Parcells a hell of a lot more than I blame Ireland..

I'm real confident Ireland didn't choose his first coach, i'am pretty confident that coach didn't choose his coordinators, pretty confident Ireland wasn't allowed to spend, and waste, the franchises first 100 million on the watch of first time president Parcells, I'm pretty confident that Ireland was not allowed to make the call for the franchises first # 1 overall/50 mill pick, Real confident that hes been in charge for two years now, real confident that those coaches are not here anymore..real confident about his first first round pick, still waiting on his 2nd..Im real confident that they went hard after the best coaching prospect I've ever seen..Iam real confident that we got 50 mill to spend, I'm super confident we got 5 of the first 70 in next years draft..

I'm confident Parcells was here for all the wrong reasons..

Give him the end of the year, I'm pretty confident Philbin makes the call.

 

He doesn't follow Parcells' plan, nor is he a Parcells disciple. Ireland was in Dallas long before Parcells arrived, so please stop making up random stuff just b/c you find in convenient.

 

Not quite

Big center in first round
RT in second round
No first day WRs (traditional first day, rounds 1-3, not ESPN influenced schedule)
Daniel Thomas, big slow back.
Early TE.

 

So you believe a guy with Parcells' ego would retain, train, promote, bring with him, promote again, with the idea for leaving the team in his hands, if they did not share philosophies?

Ok then, enjoy buying that bridge too.

 

I'm not saying this as an insult, but none of those things are part of the Parcells blueprint.

Pouncey & Martin are not Parcells lineman.
DT might be a Parcells type back but he was taken earlier than Parcells would have. (There is bound to be overlap)
I don't think that's a function of Parcells more as there bigger holes to fill and better talent at other positions at the picks.
Egnew is not a Parcells type TE.

Plus you have Clay, Gates & Miller. Far from Parcells players. Bush was not a Parcells player.

And most importantly, Tannehill. He strikes out in most of Parcells check boxes....Henne had a perfect score. As does Moore, Devlin and Garrard.

 

You believe a guy with Parcells ego would let a guy make his own choices while Parcells was in charge?

 

I think having Earl at FS now, and even Baker or McDaniel, when he comes back, at LDE, would be a better combo than Odrick and Clemons or Jones.

 

How do you know this about when he'd pick DT?

Pouncey is anyone's type of lineman. He can zone block, he can man to man block.

 

I believe in the blatantly obvious truth of it b/c it doesn't take a genius to notice the change in drafting style, change in types of players brought in, and drastic change in offensive scheme......... and then there's this statement by Cowboys owner Jerry Jones:

 

I think I'd probably have to go with Odrick, Misi, and Clemons rather than only having Earl Thomas.


..... but that's just b/c I think Misi and Odrick are on the right path in this new defense and could prove to be quite valuable with further development.

 

Since 1991 he's only taken 2 RBs before the third rd.

 

I agree. The very fact that Ireland didn't even attempt to trade up for RG3 because he was supposedly so sold on Tannehill, doesn't come across as a positive to me. Granted, the Skins were 6th and Miami was 8th, but one 2nd rounder offered could have swayed the Rams to settle for being two spots lower in this year's 1st.

 

Well, I'd never have made the Marshall trade to begin with. So we'd still been able to get Misi. And, Clemons was already on the roster at that point. Probably would have passed on Jones.
It wouldn't have been only Earl Thomas. Perhaps we could have tried to extend Langford an offseason before he was a UFA at a more affordable price. Even IF...we had to go with McDaniel or Baker at LDE, I'd have done that to have Thomas at FS.

 

I don't think Ireland believed there was enough difference between RG3 & Tannehill to pay such a steep price to get RG3 when he wouldn't have to pay anything extra for Tanny.

 

You are assuming he has some sort of conviction about never taking a RB that early. It could have just as well been how his draft board fell in the years when he was actually buying the groceries.

 

Therefore, I question his judgement, because barring injury, I think we'll see RG3 have a much more successful career.

 

If RG3 has a much more successful career, then it'd be fair to question Ireland's judgement........ but we also have to consider how far Washington would've been willing to go in a bidding war. RG3 was my favorite player in the draft, but I, too, might've gone with the combo of Tannehill + keeping all those extra draft picks.

 

Odrick was a pretty stupid draft pick when you consider we had Starks, Langford, Merling, McDaniels, Baker all on the team. this front office does things *** backwards, going into the 2010 draft we had major needs at WR, S, and pass rusher and instead of staying at 12 and taking an elite prospect like Dez Bryant, Earl Thomas or Pierre Paul we managed to trade down and use the first pick on 3-4 end, which happened to be the only position on the team that WASN'T a need at all.

then heading into the 2012 draft anyone with half a brain can see that after trading away B Marsh and replacing him in FA with nobody our WR group was arguably the worst in the league and despite this glaring weakness we don't take any WRs until the 6th and 7th rounds, not surprisingly neither see the field, one can't even make the team. it's ineptitude at the highest level.

the saddest thing is there's actually been defense of Ireland passing on a receiver early in the draft by claims of "sticking to your board" ...well I'm glad Ireland's stubborn *** stuck to his board because it's what's gonna get him fired at the end of the year.

 

I assume youre not judging players based on their first ever start, but...How do you know that he didnt even attempt to trade up?

 

LMAO yeah, taking the BPA is soooo stupid. I cant believe the Giants took JPPaul when they already had a good DL.

 

One of the media dudes in Sou Fla made a comment about it. Words to the effect that Ireland never seriously considered trying to trade up for RG3. He seemed to be locked in on Tannehill for months before the draft.

 

If all this is true, why didn't they just submit to Jeff Fisher and his wishes to override Ireland and make the final call on player personnel?

Instead they're letting a first-time head coach (Philbin) do that?

I think the far more reasonable explanation is that Ireland and Philbin are mature men who understand that Philbin as a first-time head coach is going to need authority with his players to create the kind of locker room he wants, and Ireland's moves (Marshall, Davis, Gates) have served in part to facilitate that.

The players have to have some belief in Philbin's ability to get the roster changed (i.e., to cut or trade them), or he'll have no authority with them. Jeff Ireland is simply facilitating that authority, which again is a feather in Ireland's cap because it shows he has the flexibility to do what's right for Philbin and the team, rather than rigidly sticking to his guns on players he's acquired in the past (Gates, for example).

 

Which is all bull****. I've said he's made bad decisions plenty of times. Please pay attention.

That is really amazingly arrogant.

Highlights don't tell you anything. If you were drafting anyone off of highlights, you would be a massive, unrelenting failure. You'd have no idea what was actually going on besides that a play was made. Not how it was made, not why it was made, not if the player fits what you are doing, not if the player has flaws in other areas. Going by most highlight videos, you won't actually have any idea about broad cross-sections of the player.

You've basically convinced yourself you can do a job based on metaphorically sitting on your dad's lap and touching the steering wheel when he is driving the car.

If you weren't able to go off of Mel Kiper's collection of other teams conventional wisdom, you would be so lost it isn't funny.

 

No, they aren't assistant GM's or player personnel directors. They're basically telling you what everyone else thinks. A year, actual GM doesn't have the luxury of taking what Mel Kiper does and rearranging it.

An independly generated draft board is going to have some pretty widely disparate elements. If you're relying on your own work, and you're utterly unqualified, you're going to do things like draft Eddie Moore in the 2nd round.

It's not a chicken and egg type argument. It's Mel Kiper Jr. disseminating the franchise information, not the franchises taking Mel Kiper's information.

 

Odd.

Lots of assumptions made in this thread, I provide one (in response to a post full of them) with an actual fact behind it, and I'm told I don't know that and how can I possibly come to that conclusion.

 

And if you had those resources you'd be a failure too, so what's the point?

But there are instances where the right choice can be obvious even to layman like you and me, and when the "experts" move away from the obvious choice and are proven wrong then it's a problem.

You also don't need to be an expert to figure out whether somebody has done a good job or not when the results speak for themselves.

Lastly, I don't know who you are, what you do or a living, etc. and you don't know that about me and. I'd like to keep it that way frankly. So I won't insult you if you are willing to agree to the same deal.

 

FTR, I don't think he meant it as an insult. i think they were just using your name for the hypothetical of pulling anyone from this board to GM. He didn't mean you'd fail because of anything about you specifically. Your were just an analog for any poster on this site.

 

My whole argument seemed to go way over your head.

Jeff Ireland sits in the laps(scouts opinions, cut ups of film, news of other teams desires, etc.) of all the work being done around him and still ****s it up.

I sit in the lap of ESPN, NFL Network, and youtube, and I would not have messed up some of the monumental decisions he did. And I'm not even saying I'd be good or better. But there are many many that are probably more qualified especially given his resources

 

Agree 100%

I think there should be no question about that. Which is why I'm surprised to see that some will still question it.