What is your impression of Jeff Ireland as a GM ?

The difference is, we have some evidence indicating Ireland had to draft based on Parcells blueprint. Sometimes when the meal comes out bad its the recipe. Either way we don't know.

We do know last year and this year are all him. So I'll judge him by those. Why is that unreasonable to you?

 

I voted positive, though I'm only slightly beyond neutral. This draft class put it over the top for me. I love it.

 

Try 39. You're not going to convince me you're not emotional about the issue with all the posts you've spent on the subject. If anything, I'd say the people wrapping the clock of neutrality and "objectivity" around their stance are even more emotional about it than the folks who have made up their minds.

 

Even with the 3rd and 4th round picks being inactive in Week 1?

Way too early to judge this draft class, obviously, but that was upsetting. Looks like Miller will have to be active this week though. Not sure about Egnew.

 

Because he was still a part of that regime. Even if given a blueprint, Ireland still had a piece of that. I give weight to the fact that Parcells controlled the strings, but Ireland was still a part of that. The best year we've had was under Parcells. Parcells started to move away and we've gotten worse. Each year Parcells was here you could see his participation shrinking. And the past two years is more than enough, coupled with the years before that to judge him, that's why I give him until the end of this year. His handling of the WR situation is borderline criminal.

 

I'm neutral (leaning towards positive) because I think a GMs job is get the type of guys the coach wants. Sparano wanted really big guys who muscled the other team. At one point two years ago, Sparano said we needed speed and playmakers. After that, we got a playmaker back and a power back, Ireland tried to address the speed issue with Gates at WR. I think now he has to try to find people that Philbon likes. Faster OL (Martin), pass catching RBs. I think he still has failed on the TE position. IMO, Fasano doesn't start on 9/10th of the NFL rosters out there. Some of the negative publicity is feed off of ESPN and lazy reporters. ESPN paints a negative picture and lazy reporters just rehash the same old arguments instead of being creative and coming up with their own relevant stories.

That's the biggest reason top free agents don't sign here with us I believe. Just my opinion. There are probably a few GMs very glad the story broke about Ireland and Dez Bryants questioning of his mom. Some of them probably asked the same question, but in a politically correct way.

Sometimes a GM also has to just select the stud staring at him in the draft and not worry about if he's a "system type" of player. He will step up and play the system when he learns it if he's a stud. (I'm thinking of Hernandez here).

 

Their being active or inactive the first week of their rookie season doesn't change my evaluation of them. They could not play a snap this year and my positive evaluation of them as players going forward would stand firm for me.

 

I think the question that needs to be asked of the people who feel neutral or positive about Jeff Ireland is this: If this season is as bad or average as many of us think it will be (meaning our record will be between disastrous, 3-13 ish, and mediocre 8-8) do you want to hang your hat on Jeff Ireland setting up this franchise for the next 3 years? Because that is what you are looking right at.

If we are awful we will have 5 picks in the top 70 and if we are average it will be 5 picks in the top 80. We will have 50+ million in cap space this offseason. Is Jeff Ireland really you want making the signings? Is Ireland the guy you want to hang your hat on knowing that for the next 3 years these are going to be "his guys"?

I cant say yes to any of those. So while I think there are some good things Ireland did (drafting Tannehill, this draft class in general, trading Marshall, getting Reggie Bush last offseason), I think hes done as much bad as good. I dont want him determining the long term future of this franchise.

 

I have to disagree. You could have a flying pony! Seems like a waste of a wish to me.

 

With all due respect to all the hard work you put into the draft stuff you do(With as much as I disagree with you on virtually everything I do like and read), you apply that perspective to the reality of the situation and that perspective is fundamentally flawed. Your criticism is largely based on an idealized view of the draft that is far from reality. You don't get held to any accountability on the picks you advocate panning out or not, and having paid some attention I don't think that stands up at all to Ireland's track record.

 

They weren't a team. They were employee and employer. Ireland had to do what was he was told. We've been given proof that when Ireland wasn't employed by Parcells he would argue with him and go with his own choices like in Dallas. Do you often get to do the opposite of what your boss wants? Even if you do, does Parcells strike you as that type of boss?

 

I disagree on your stance of the years of responsibility of Ireland.
I am just curious to know if you have read the thread in the rants forum where the OP asks that no one voice any opinions on Ireland, just post factual articles found online that either support Ireland or don't support him. I totally paraphrased that. But although the info was mainly from the OP, I found it was a very compeling and what I consider factual evidence that Parcells was responsible for the years he was here and Ireland was responsible for the year Parcell's stepped back and eventually left. It basically IMO factually proves that although Ireland always had the GM title, he never had the power to back the title until 2010 after the off season during the season and full power with the time to make a full off season and season matter from 2011 til now.
I can honestly say that i went into that thread opened minded and with no stance on the responsible years of Ireland and left that thread knowing the exact time that Parcells was completely responsible and the exact time Ireland was completely responsible.
If anyone could provide anything that suggest otherwise, ! would be open minded and let anyone know if I saw any reason to change my stance.
If you haven't read that thread ! suggest that everyone read it and form their own opinion.

 

On a team this devoid of talent, if your 3rd and 4th round picks don't see the field and aren't injured then there's a problem.

Miller I could almost see, because Bush and Thomas (even though I'm not a fan of Thomas) will get most of the carries. But Egnew? No excuse there.

 

As a rookie Jermichael Finley had 2 scratches and caught only 6 passes: http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/11325/jermichael-finley

You could point out that Finley was drafted about a round and a half later but thats not really the point. The point is they were both thought of as receiving TE's who needed work on their blocking and overall readiness for the pro game. Theres a few similarities in skill-set that make the situations comparable.

 

I don't believe this team is devoid of talent in the least. Also I don't consider TE to be a position of immediate need with Fasano and Clay being very solid options allowing Egnew to develop.

Immediate playing time has no reflection upon the long term value of a players potential in my mind.

 

I would normally agree that after week 1 is way to early to judge any draft on any team. But when you have been a fan of a team for your whole life and you haven't been a consistent good team since a first round pick was used on a man named Marino, I think its ok to be early in judging a draft as a positive just for the fact that we have finally used a first round pick on a QB since Marino which is something that numerous people have failed to do until Ireland did it. Whether Tannehill is good or bad, I think its ok to pre maturely count this draft as a positive for that reason alone.

 

Then we're not going to agree on much here.

 

Neutral for me. I look at his personnel moves, free agency, trades, cuts, drafting, on a case by case basis. Some choices he makes I agree with. Some I strongly disagree with, and some I am basically neutral on.
To be negative, for me he'd have to make like 75% poor decisions, and for positive, then about 75% good ones. His decisions IMO fall somewhere in the 40-60% range between number of good and number of poor.

 

Serious question. In all the debating about Ireland has a single poster been convinced to change their mind about him?

 

I agree that his handling of the WR situation is borderline criminal. But i strongly disagree that Ireland should be judged on anything before the start of the 2010 season and the entire year of the 2011 season up until now. I have good reason to believe that and have failed to see any good reason not to believe that, other than opinion.

 

Later than whom? Finley was the 91st pick in his draft year, and Egnew was 78th this year.

 

At least get his name right Chris - "legodude nanny nanny booboo"

 

No excuse for what with Egnew? Are we to call him a bad choice, a bust perhaps already because he hasn't played much yet?
Jimmy Graham had 5 starts as a rookie and caught 31 passes. Something like 26 of them came from week 9 on. Jermichael Finley started 1 game as a rookie, played in 12, and caught 6 passes for 74 yards. Had you been a Packers fan would you have been calling him a bad pick on Green Bay forums after the 1st game of his rookie season?

 

Heh, for some reason i though Finley had been a 5th rounder. You are correct sir.

 

Those players being inactive week 1 isn't all that concerning, IMO. I think, however, one would like to see them contributing by week 17.

 

Not calling him a bust at all. Just a little surprising to me that he was inactive Week 1. I'm not calling him anything at this point. But, while we're on the subject, Green Bay and New Orleans weren't exactly short on playmakers before Finley and Graham arrived. How many do the Dolphins have?

 

Must be foreign...

 

If Charles Clay keeps playing like this and Michael Egnew is still inactive, then I'll be concerned.

 

yes. I have honestly been nuetral, leaning negative and have changed to nuetral leaning positive. And i went to never having an opinion on what years Ireland should have full responsibility for because i never thought it could be proved unless i was given the chance to personally ask Parcells and Ireland questions and have them honestly answered. And my stance of the years Ireland was responsible for changed after reading one thread with nothing but links and copied and pasted info that i read. I ignored the few opinionated comments in that thread.

 

Fasano is a solid all around TE. PFF rated him the 14th receiving TE last season and 11th in 2010. Not Pro Bowler, but solid. Clay is a year ahead of Egnew and has some development already as a pass catcher. I never really expected Egnew to come in and take a spot at the top of the depth chart away from either one this season. As a rookie, Finley was stuck behind Donald Lee, and some dude named Tory Humphrey. Lee was rated like the 90th TE in the league that season. In comparison it's certainly no disgrace for Egnew to be stuck behind Fasano and Clay, or even Mastrud, who is a very good blocker.

 

If the owner is picking the coach, then the team is doomed to fail.

 

Depends how Tannehill and Philbin look. If he found a legitimate franchise QB and head coach, then that is as much setting up as this upcoming offseason will entail.

 

So we have Lamar Miller, who was universally praised as a "steal" and Egnew the prolific All-American TE and neither one can get on the active roster. Maybe we're not devoid of talent after all.

 

Obviously negative view points are wrong.

 

Loads of talent everywhere bro 13-3

 

Egnew was/is supposed to add a different dynamic than what we currently have at TE. Fasano has the size but not necessarily the speed whereas Clay has more speed but not size (though he's not exactly short, he's not 6'5 - 6'6 like Egnew). This is why I expected Egnew to be a guy who could make an immediate impact. Hopefully he shows the coaches he can contribute because the Dolphins desperately need a guy like that.

 

Neutral.

 

That's the kind of expert analysis I've come to expect.

 

What if you arent sure you found a franchise QB? Thats a legitimate possibility since franchise qb's dont always show themselves after 1 season. After 1 season we thought Brees was a bust, Rodgers couldnt pass old man Favre on the depth chart, Eli looked like some funny faced hillbilly that threw funny, and Tom Brady was a game manager who was squeaking out 16-13 wins.