Dave Hyde's take on Bill Polian's Team Building Plan

I understand what he's saying, I just disagree with it.

 

How can you disagree with it?

How is a team minus one piece 2-14 and that's ok?

 

Polian didn't give Harrison to Manning. Harrison was there previously. Do your research, please. As for HoF, Harrison should be HoF. But Wayne, Clark, Mathis and Freeney I don't believe should be considered HoF worthy. None of them have ever even been the best at their position during their entire tenure.

 

You're looking at one season, I'm looking at the last 10 years.

 

Just so I understand here, is a team "well built" or "poorly built" if it loses 14 games in 1 season while being outscored by 183 points, including a 62-7 thrashing, the most embarrassing loss in recent years?


***So, what the genuine logic of it says is, if Polian's crappy 2-14 team [that was outscored by 183 points] can be a perennial 12 win team with Peyton Manning, then Ireland's 6-10 team [that outscored opponents by 16 points] should be a SB caliber team if Tannehill & Philbin prove to be the real deal.***

 

If Tannehill turns out to be the real deal and is surrounded by a core HALF as good as Harrison-Wayne-Clark then absolutely the Dolphins will be Super Bowl contenders. That's how the NFL works.

 

Fine. How long do we give him to prove he can still do it? 5 years is obviously not enough time. So at what point are we allowed to say he's done in your eyes, because he has certainly drafted worse than ireland in the same amount of time.

 

So what you're saying is it all revolves around the QB and that we should just give Ireland time for his boy Tannehill to develop. Got it. I can agree with that.

 

Hahahahahahaha no

 

I already answered this on this exact page of the thread.

 

.... and how much FA money has Ireland put us in a position for next year? $60'ish million. (Why exactly are you mad at him for that BTW?)
.... and who are the prize FA receivers? Greg Jennings (whom GB might not be able to re-sign), Mike Wallace, Dwayne Bowe
.... and how many high picks do we have to fix it? a bunch.

Do you honestly believe Ireland would have a crush on Tannehill since last August, love him enough to pull the trigger at #8, and then not want to give his shiny new QB some toys to play with? I find that to be impossible, and his plan will unfold next year for such now that we have the cap space freedom and available picks to do so after using this year's draft to grab a QB and sure up his protection.

 

I have never once said I want Polian as GM. But when I saw Ireland defenders jump in and say the guy built a poor team in Indy, I had to point out the ridiculousness of it.

I think it was CK (I could be wrong) who mentioned some solid candidates for replacing Ireland at season's end.

 

But unfortunately we can never even get to that point because no one who is making this contention about Ireland is willing to DO any systematic and objective investigation!

That's what makes it "too emotional" -- that no one who strongly holds this opinion is even willing to objectively take a look at it. It's about like religion.

What my perspective rests on is not what the systematic and objective investigation would ultimately show, but rather that this viewpoint about Ireland is very strongly held but totally devoid of any.

It's a glorified opinion-fest, with those holding this strong opinion about Ireland portraying it as a self-evident truth, despite that it's based on nothing that's been objectively and systematically investigated.

Again, religion. And if you're into religion, fine, but don't expect me to be a "believer" if all you're doing is standing at the corner holding a bible screaming at cars as they go by.

 

I missed it the first time. My bad.

I think Desides had a pretty solid post about this, way better than anything I could reply with.

 

I didn't say you did.

I saw "Ireland defenders" say Polian is no longer a good GM. I saw Ireland Haters lose their collective ****.

 

The short list would probably be Eric DeCosta, Nick Caserio and maybe Russ Ball or John Dorsey.

Nick Caserio's resume makes him the natural elephant in the room type of candidate. I listed all the guys he drafted since Scott Pioli left and the list is just damn impressive. He's been a scout, he's also been a WRs Coach, and even after moving back to the personnel side as Director of Player Personnel, he still assisted in the coaching effort from the coaching booth, right next to Football Research wizard Ernie Adams. I think where Jeff Ireland speaks in the language of athleticism and measurables, Caserio obviously can speak more in the language of X's and O's which Joe Philbin will probably like better. I also like that Caserio has witnessed firsthand how you can take advantage of fools who give you future 2nd rounders or even 1st rounders for present 3rd rounders or 2nd rounders, respectively. I don't know what his ego is like, and that tends to be the biggest hurdle for EVERY guy that comes out of New England, but I don't think he has the cred to demand the God-like authority Scott Pioli demanded in Kansas City. Then again, who knows?

Eric DeCosta is well thought of as well, and there's been some hinting that part of the reason he hasn't already left Baltimore is just because he's so comfortable there. His wife is from Baltimore, they have family there, he's wary of how other Baltimore front office guys have found that the grass is NOT greener when they leave, and he's thought of as Ozzie Newsome's natural successor.

Russ Ball has an interesting background but the weakness there is obvious. He's more of a Team President type candidate and you'll be relying on a strong Director of Player Personnel to be under him running the scouting department. John Dorsey has the exact opposite issue, a true football type with a strong scouting background but he's only just become Director of Football Operations and you're not sure A) if he's even interested in a promotion outside of Green Bay, or B) if he has the experience to head up a team organizational structure. I personally wonder if the Dolphins would be better off with someone like Ball being the President of Football Operations and then you could poach someone like Andy Patch from the Eagles to return to Miami (he was an intern here back in early 2000's) to be the Director of Player Personnel under Ball.

There are some others out there. Marc Ross of the Giants is well thought of I believe. Ruston Webster's name keeps popping up.

 

Several people said he was overrated and his teams were poorly built which is why they only won one Super Bowl.

 

Right now he is overrated, because he is no longer as good as he once was but people are using what he did over a decade ago to tout his skills.

His team was overrated if they can lose Manning and only win 2 games. I mean if they won 6-8 games that's one thing...but 2? Why didn't he snatch up Moore? He knew there were questions about Manning starting. No, he went with Painter.

 

Here's a quote from Tom Moore, and one of my favorite NFL quotes ever:

If you need to put in a backup, you're already ****ed.

 

Two falsehoods here.

1. At the time, there was genuine debate over who should be taken first, Manning or Ryan Leaf. The Colts leaned toward Manning only after Manning met with them and said "If you don't draft me, I'm going to kick your *** for a decade."

2. Andrew Luck was not described as the surest thing since Manning, he was described as the best prospect since John Elway.

Ah, the last 5 years. So totally ignore the core the Colts had for almost a decade solely to operate within the timeline that is most convenient for your position, ignoring the annual playoff appearances and two Super Bowl appearances within that same span of time.

The amusing thing here is that I'm not defending Bill Polian at all, was posting two years ago that Jeff Ireland's track record since Ireland's hire was better than Polian's over the same span, and would prefer Ireland over Polian right now.

You can give players new contracts. Do your research, please.

 

Harrison had been on the team for two years before Polian got there.

Your whiff on that first fact is par for the course on the rest of the facts in your post.

 

You replied before I edited with a reply to Trowa; new contracts count.

I can only imagine what you would be saying about Polian if he had let Marvin Harrison walk in free agency, especially considering the free agent defense many field in favor of Jeff Ireland.

 

Ah yes, the whole "make up rules and definitions after I've been proven wrong" trick. Well done.

 

i totally agree. I believe we are in a good position, Ireland has a good plan for the future and has put us in a great position to try to fix our problems next year. But my problem is IMO is what i equate to a fact in my mind that he made us a little worse in a couple of positions this year with no assurrance but a good chance to get better in the future.
That's why I am nuetral on Ireland. I believe he did the best posible option to fix the biggest need (QB). While making us worse at 2 other positions (WR and CB). I just would have prefered attempts for a "now fix" at the 2 positions that he created unecesarry needs at this year.

 

You see, this is a fundamental problem. You basically had easily digestible information spoon-fed to you, and you still can't be bothered to have an informed opinion. Bill Polian's drafts sucked for a whole lot longer than four years.

Bill Polian making a good decision on Peyton Manning does not excuse a very long time of awful drafting. It doesn't make him a good, or acceptable GM. If the Colts had even an average GM, Peyton Manning would have likely won multiple Super Bowls.

And I'm not sure who all these Hall of Famers you are citing are. The only person there that is likely to get in the Hall of Fame that Polian is responsible for is Reggie Wayne. Virtually every single one of those other players you are citing are either not guys Polian is responsible for, or not even remotely close(Are you seriously suggesting Marcus Pollard or Dallas Clark as Hall of Famers?)

 

I think Edgerrin is a HOFer. Probably one of the few great picks from Polian.

 

As opposed to the whole "distort a teritary supporting detail and attempt to declare the entire argument invalid" trick?

If indicting me over Polian not drafting Marvin Harrison despite my never saying he drafted Marvin Harrison is the focal point of your current series of replies, then that's pretty telling. If you're going to object to my point, object with something of substance, not barrel-bottom-scraping nonsense that you're churning up just because you disagree in general.

And yet, his Colts rosters had two Super Bowl appearances, one Super Bowl victory, a decade of conference domination, and potentially as many as six Hall of Fame players plus the Hall of Fame coach.

You loft Jeff Ireland over THAT. It's absurd in ways that Monty Python couldn't even fathom, even though I agree that Bill Polian's drafts sucked for at least half a decade. I was making that point two years ago!

This is so ridiculous.

 

And that virtually all comes down to one very close decision on Peyton Manning vs. Ryan Leaf. Polian gets credit on making the correct decision, but that doesn't absolve him of generalized terribleness.

Please by all means name these Hall of Famers, because you're essentially just making **** up in regards to that.

You need to backpedal further on the number of bad drafts Bill Polian had. You're still way off.

 

I am Bill Polian's inflated sense of self worth...

 

A tertiary supporting detail? You say Polian brought in Harrison as an example of his foresight when he had already been there and that's not even a secondary detail to you? lol. Strike 1.

Luck was called the next manning left and right. Google it. Strike 2.

The only people seriously torn over Manning or Leaf was the media trying to make a story. No one thought the Colts were actually going with Leaf. Strike 3.

 

Really? You expect me to believe you meant he gave Harrison to Peyton as he gave him a contract extension? No dude, that's clearly not what you meant and now you're atrying to save face. Admit that you really though Polian drafted Harrison and I might still have some respect for your posts.