Right on the money here. Of course Daniel Thomas has talent. He showed the talent when he made the first defender miss on that screen pass this weekend. The problem is he has almost zero instincts for a tailback. Stuff other tailbacks take for granted, he doesn't have. He showed it multiple times in this game alone. The play he fumbled on, he cut back right INTO the teeth of a free defender. It was like he had a homing beacon to sniff out and move toward whatever was most dangerous to him. And that wasn't the only time he did that in the game. On one of his other carries he had two possibilities for where he could go on the zone play. He could keep stretching the play to the sidelines and try and find the corner or a cutback, or he could cut back to the inside to some free space. He chose option #3, run directly into J.J. Watt. He has zero vision. It's all just reactions out there and his reactions are often puzzling. When you lack instincts you get put in awkward situations where awkward things happen, such as a fumble in your own territory with 28 seconds left in the half on what is obviously a "see if you can get 15 yards against this dime defense but otherwise just run out the clock" carry. I wasn't whistling dixie when I talked about the recklessness he displayed in that Atlanta game when he ends up leaping up in the air and getting flipped over about 8 to 10 yards shy of the goal line. As a tailback you should know that you don't leave your feet like that unless it's a short yardage dive play. The risks far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far outweigh the rewards. He actually fumbled that ball against the Falcons, and he's just lucky it happened after he hit the ground. Oh and he's lucky he didn't break his neck. That too. No instincts ===> Awkward situations ===> Awkwardly bad results ===> NOT TRUSTWORTHY Ultimately, that's why he's going to have his reps hawked by Lamar Miller, not because of the concussion (the tests for which he's already passed, and therefore COULD play this week if the coaches wanted).
Because fumbling the ball on a clock killing carry on your own 30 yard line with 28 seconds left in the half normally puts you in the coach's doghouse?
Why? You can't draw conclusions on someone based on an injury filled rookie season. It's not fair. Just as ck is describing with his lack of vision, give him a chance to get better. Why are we so quick to dismiss players around here?
since Ck and I are the only ones who aren't sold on DT I'm assuming you're posing that question to me. And the best answer I can come up with is because the majority of fans here are knee jerk reactionaries? That's why people were blaming Jeff Ireland for the loss on Sunday when Ireland isn't the one turned the ball over 4 times on our end of the field. I like to think that I'm pretty level headed and realistic about matters pertaining to the Dolphins. A lot of that comes from the fact that I've seen my alma mater win 2 national championships in the past 3 years. My championship desire is at least satiated for the time being. But that championship desire still burns red hot in a lot of Dolphins fans because, let's face it, if you aren't an Alabama fan you might as well not be watching college football cause whatever you do doesn't matter. And that championship desire blinds you to rational thought a lot of the time. All that being said, I still don't believe Daniel Thomas has a productive career as an NFL running back based on what I have observed from him in his time in the NFL.
Wow. The guy gets knocked out and fumbles and you think that put's him in the coach's doghouse. What about his production up until that point? That makes no sense to me at all.
He fumbled because of the hit that also gave him a concussion. A hit that happened by the way because he was extremely late on his cutback attempt and in effect just cut straight into the gunning defender, showing zero vision. And no CHARLES CLAY did not miss that block. The broadcast footage shows it well enough but the All 22 footage shows it more clearly, Clay never had the angle to block that player on that play, the way Daniel Thomas ran it. The only way Clay could have made that block would have been if Daniel Thomas had shown the vision and timing to make the cutback at the right time. But he didn't, and he fumbled because of it.
Yeah he goes in the dog house. You're damn right. I don't want a football player out there taking reps that has such poor vision and instincts that he actually puts himself in danger on the regular. He did it against the Falcons in a preseason game and he did it again here. This is a dangerous game. Bad instincts result in bad plays and they also result in injuries, and this play was a great example of both.
I don't agree with that. Yes, the the hit could be on Thomas. I have to look over it to see but that isn't really my point. I don't see how you can say the fumble was on him. He was concussed. That is why he fumbled. A player does not always receive a concussion on a play like that. Unfortunately he did, and he fumbled as a result.
I have no problem with you or anyone else not being sold on him, that's fine. Hell, I'm not completely sold on him either. My issue is that some people have already written him off based on a short amount of playing time. He has only played about half a season so far and he has shown flashes of being a pretty good player here and there. Like ck has said, yes, he does need to improve his vision, but I have seen him display some talent that makes me believe he can be a pretty good player for us. If this was 2 years from now, and Thomas was still the same player, then I'd be in the same boat as you in thinking he's nothing special, but he's not. He's a young player who's still learning. Like a lot of other guys on the team.
He's shown vision on various plays. Not consistently at all, and not really good vision. On those plays in question, he had about zero. He wasn't reading the linebackers or defensive line at all.
An injury prone back who fumbled alot in college, just happens to be hurt all the time and fumbles the ball. WHAT A COINCIDENCE!
so although I get your danger point, wouldn't it be a bit irrational to just hold this one play against him to put him in the doghouse?
That's an awful convenient manner of thinking. The two things happened at exactly the same time so no you can't really say one caused the other. The hit he took caused the fumble and it also gave him a concussion. Even he'd not been concussed he would have fumbled that ball because they happened simultaneously. You're acting like the guy got hit on the head and then a second later the ball came dribbling out as he started to fall unconscious. The two things happened simultaneously and if you watch the close up replay (and you were honest about it) you would see that.
Just one play? 1. He was a terrible football player last year 2. He was not very good this preseason 3. He's shown this kind of reckless behavior and lack of instincts before 4. He's also shown this propensity toward fumbling before, in college and the NFL 5. He was accused of immature work habits a year ago 6. Within a span of 4 days he showed up late to the team flight, broke dress code, then showed up late to a lift I wouldn't say that this would be one little ole fumble that causes him to be in the dog house to the extent that you find yourself activating Lamar Miller and giving him a few reps to see what he's got. Are people really acting like I'm being unreasonable about this?
Terrible, no. Not great, definitely. He seemed a mix bag to me, mostly like he had advanced IMO. I'm sure he has. Again though, are you telling me that outweighs any good? And again, a propensity for fumbling goes out the window when you have a concussion. Ask anyone whose had one. Ok? So how often did he do that last year? None? twenty? Is there a progression? was it baseline? I don't think its unreasonable. I think it's a bit overstated. I think he showed he's progressed. Was he great last year, no. Was he ok, I think so. Did he show a progression in the way he cut, etc. Absolutely. Could I be wrong? Sure. But I don't think it will be because he lost a football while getting concussed, or was late to a team meeting. It will be because in the end, I think, he was average and not good/great. And unless you think lamar miller has shown more that he can be above "average" it's a bit of a reach to say dt was sat due to his fumble.
My bad. I didn't realize he was knocked out in the Atlanta too. 2 concussions this early in the season can't be a good sign at all.
the one thing that stood out in this Houston game was our zone blocking and the seams bush was finding rather easily.in the early goings, it was a bad smack in the kisser, when DT went back to his old, "let me find the tackle and bury my facemask into his back" thing. save for a beautifully called screen, where he had all day to run, DT just has not lived up to his draft pedigree, last season, in this preseason, and in game 1. His fumble was the nail.
He wasn't knocked out against Atlanta. But he put himself at risk of fumbling and at risk of serious injury by going vertical 8 to 10 yards shy of the end zone, getting flipped completely over. As a tailback, you're taught not to leave your feet unless it's a short yardage dive or the goal line. The risks far outweigh the rewards.
On two runs you're exactly right. It was like he had a homing beacon for whoever was most dangerous to him and that's where he ran straight into. It's just confusing. Yeah, I'm all for activating and putting in the guy that even the front office evaluated as a better draft prospect than Daniel Thomas. See what he's got.
This seems kind of the like the same extreme criticism you had of Reggie Bush [when we signed him] when you said something to the effect of not being able to tell him apart from Lorenzo Booker if you took his name off his jersey.... and that he would be practice squad material on the Eagles or something like that. It just seems like when you dislike a player you sometimes go to the extreme to qualify your disdain. Bottom line is of course Thomas would have past issues b/c he was only a back for 2 years prior to being drafted, but at least he's a natural runner with decent instincts & vision that he'll of course need some time to hone. "Reckless behavior"? He was met by a shooting nickel corner as he tried to cut back to the open lane to his right. How is that reckless? And he wasn't terrible last year. He was a rookie last year....... with the 3rd most rookie rushing yards, and did so on a bum hamstring.
You have to consider the circumstances. You give the ball to DT after all that? The running game was working. I think we all know the play calls were skeptical.
Reckless behavior because he stopped his feet and cut right INTO that blitzing safety. Where's the vision? Reckless behavior is leaping into the air so that you can get flipped onto your neck and beck when you're still 10 yards away from the end zone. Yeah, reckless behavior. I was wrong about Reggie Bush. I'm not often wrong about guys that I'm very negative on. And I'm not often very negative on guys that haven't convinced me they're good players. How's Chad Henne doing nowadays, Todd?
I completely disagree that Thomas hasn't "done a damn thing' in 2 years. First of all, what 2 years? He's been in the NFL a little over a year. If you want to say he needs to improve, you'd be absolutely correct. If you say he hasn't shown anything to be hopeful for, you're absolutely wrong.
After watching the reply with a closer look, I stand by what I said. It's pretty obvious he was dazed when he got hit. He doesn't fumble if he wasn't concussed.
I don't think you're being honest with yourself about it. Either that or your replay capabilities don't show the play very well.
Because I disagree with you? He was hit high by Quin, concussed and as a result couldn't hold on to the football. It's pretty obvious, actually.
And then he promptly ran for 1 yard, cut back into the teeth of the defense, got knocked the **** out and fumbled the ball all while dropping his rushing average for the game back below 4. I'm not going to play this game with you that "at this point in the game blah blah blah." You play for 60 minutes. Your stats at the end of the 60 minutes is what counts. And right now the kid has a 3.5 ypc average for his career which is not good enough to get it done in the NFL.
Love it. You are correct , you are not often wrong but if or when you are you can and do say so , ala Reggie Bush. Big kudos , that makes your opinions MORE relevant imo. BTW , I never ever said I don't make mistakes or was never wrong and don't profess to know more than many on here , maybe others can also do so.
I disagree with that. On the first run he looked to be taking it wide until Cushing defeated Fasano's block and contained it, forcing DT to try and cut back to the crease to Fasano's left but Watt was crashing through to make the play. The 2nd run was nice. The 3rd run looked like DT was trying to cut it back to the open lane but was first met by a shooting nickel back.
It doesn't matter that you were wrong. Everyone's wrong occasionally. I wasn't referencing Reggie Bush to serve as a thumb screw; I was using it as an example of how it seems that when you don't like a player you occasionally go overboard to make it seem like he's much worse than he really is, as if for dramatic affect. Thomas didn't cut into him. Look at the coaches film. He tried to cut back to the right of Clay who was trying to pick up the shooting safety b/c the lane was wide enough for 4 semi trucks and with no one in front of him for 15 yards. The vision is that he recognized the lane and tried to seize it b/c everything was bottled up to the plays original weakside design.
I'm watching the coaches film. He waits too late for the cut back and cuts directly into the blitzing safety, going flat footed. Terrible decision on his part, showed no vision or timing.
