The Anti-Jeff Ireland Thread

No. I think Porter provided a negative value-added to the Dolphins because he was overpaid. He provided value-added to the Steelers because he was pretty cheap there.

 

The problem being, it's not baseless. The original argument was: The 2007 team was comperable to the 2012 team in talent level. Your reply was, no, not really. Now you're talking "intrinsically" about schemes, roles and coaching staffs. How is that not changing the scope of the argument? I mean, jesus, man up and concede a point when it's bloody obvious to everyone that you're back paddling at pretty high speed.

 

Vendingo hit the nail on the head. You've completely changed the scope of the argument to bring it to an area where you have a very solid knowledge of (front 7 of a defense)

The argument was about talent on a roster. That's it
You changed it to coaching the talent and the talent used in schemes.

It's not my fault that Porter was used wrongly in 2007. Doesn't mean he wasn't talented.

If that's the case, we can say Jared Odrick has no talent either because he's being mis-used as a 4-3 DE. (A case that I believe even you disagree with)

 

Maybe it's the comic book nerd in me, but when I saw this thread I thought it was going to be about this guy:

 

I'm pretty sure any new GM candidates will be smart enough to realize that Ireland is gone because of the 4th straight losing season and overall lack of talent on the team.

 

Let's test this...shall we?

Last year's pro bowl safeties:

Troy Polamalu (Pitt)-PLAYOFFS
Ryan Clark (Pitt)-PLAYOFFS
Erik Weddle (SD)
Ed Reed (BAL)-PLAYOFFS
Brian Dawkins (DEN)-PLAYOFFS
Earl Thomas (SEA) - Where have I heard that name before?
Dashon Goldson (SF)-PLAYOFFS)
Kam Chancellor (SEA)
Adrian Wilson (ARI)

These players were a combined 68-44, for an average of 10 wins per team.

Objectively speaking there are only two hall of fame locks playing safety today and one that will get consideration. The locks are Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu. The one that will get consideration is Brian Dawkins. How have all three fared in their careers?

Damn..we need to get a ball hawking safety.

 

Nearly the very first post I made on this topic was replying that you can't compare Paul Soliai circa 2007 to Paul Soliai of today because of those very factors. I'm not suddenly changing anything, you're not paying attention.

 

I stand corrected. You didn't suddenly change the scope of the argument; you changed it as soon as Eop pointed out that you "can't be serious".

 

Conversely, if we make the playoffs, maybe our safety will be named a pro-bowler?

 

Now cut that list down by half because you apparently don't understand what "ball hawking" actually means.

And then put it in a context of successful teams. There are plenty of playoff teams without "ball-hawking" or even good safeties.

 

Which one? Chris "dude, where's dat ball?" Clemons or Rashad "dude, tell me where dat ball is" Jones?

 

I won't lie I wanted Earl Thomas BADLY that draft. I would have even traded up to get him if I'd needed to.

 

Right, but the GM candidates very likely will believe that Ireland was under the impression he had the luxury of eschewing immediate wins in favor of long-term planning. That strategy resulted in Ireland being fired. What does that tell GM candidates their expectations are?

 

Don't produce four losing seasons in a row?

 

Who knows, but generally I believe that a lot more players make the pro-bowl based off their team's success rather than the converse.

 

Still wrong, but better. Which is weird because I was responding to you. I said that development was an aspect pretty much as soon as I had any reason to.

 

Again, Jeff Ireland didn't enter this season with the sole intent of maximizing this year's wins.

 

Nor the last 3

 

I don't agree. I think there were a number of moves that were made with the intent of winning immediately. Brandon Marshall being one of the obvious, along with a couple of other FA moves.

Considering how many people want to label this season as "rebuilding" (I'm not a fan of that term), I think the argument here is strong.

 

Don't look at me: I just found it funny that you listed Soliai as an Ireland success when he was drafted by the nitwits of 2007. The discussion between you and Eop, however, was based on talent from the getgo. You either changed the scope of the argument when you realized that you were fighting a losing battle or you really need to look up the meaning of the word "talent". Pick your poison.

 

That's your assumption. I think it's the wrong one.

 

Now you are doing that thing you do when somebody makes you look like an idiot. Just say that they don't "understand" something and then double down on your dumb argument.

Rinse and Repeat.

 

What does "ball hawking" mean?

 

You're still waiting because I have no interest whatsoever in talking football with you. But don't worry, I still love you.

 

This is beyond ridiculous on a second look.

Pass Defense is one of the chief indexes for NFL success.

Do Safeties contribute to Pass Defense?

So good Safeties would mean Better pass defense and thus better team...no?

Just logic.

 

Yes. Watch me shiver:

 

It means aggressive turnover inducing ball skilled athletes that play safety.

What does "Sociopath" mean?

 

Who would you people want as the replacement GM anyways. And would they mesh with Philbins WCOaporoach or flush him with Ireland.

 

Urban Dictionary says: Jeff Ireland

 

I'd gladly take Tom Heckert if Holmgren bolts Cleveland.

 

I want this guy:

 

Everybody please stop with the name calling and insults (of fellow posters), or appropriate action will be taken.

 

That's not the topic being discussed.

What does ball hawking mean?

 

Its an assumption based on the actions taken, yes.

 

Now you are just baiting.

Wave that white flag proudly.

 

Nor would it be something that prospective GM candidate would ever know happened.

 

Did we ever figure out what the deal was with the whole Carl Peterson/Jeff Ireland separate coaching hires thing?

 

So you're completely hypothesizing that Randy Mueller had assurances from Wayne Huizenga that he would be around in 2008 no matter what, and your only evidence is that "Wayne was a clown of an owner".

I don't see that as evidence at all.

 

The person in question I was arguing with literally said a ball-hawking safety was very important. I didn't make the distinction.

Figuring out who actually is a ball hawking safety isn't baiting, semantics, or anything like that. It's literally a key part of what is being discussed .

 

There were a lot of things rumored during that time period which weren't or couldn't actually be true that were never followed up on aterwards.