The Anti-Jeff Ireland Thread

further illustration as to why Ireland is a boob:

The Chargers decide to not re-sign their high priced playmaker at WR in Vincent Jackson, so they sought to use the savings on defensive depth and still managed to replace him with Meachem and a reclamation project in Eddie Royal.

 

While I admire your persistence, judging by this thread, in 3 years you've managed to come up with 0 factual evidence to support your opinion.

You forgot to mention the nightclub fight that got one of Marshall's teammates (Darrent Williams) killed in Denver. Or the fight where he lacerated his arm and missed a month. Or how he was benched by McDaniels for being an ******* in practice. Or the stabbing incident with his wife. Or the fight with Vontae. Or the taxi cab incident. Or the poorly timed personal fouls and penalties. Or the constantly asking out of the game for a rest after random receptions or plays where he thought he should have gotten the ball. Or all of the other incidents that never made it to news print. And yes, the plan was to bring in Nannee and Johnson to go with Bess, Hartline and the rest. Not a good plan IMO, but a plan nonetheless.

We're weaker in the secondary based on what? The preseason plus one game? Where were the disastrous plays with the safeties? When was Marshall looking like a liability? You said yourself you have no idea how Vontae did, and yeah, he was one of the ones sucking wind last season vs Houston. He was hurt (hamstring) in that game and ended up missing 3 games IIRC.Then he shows up for practice late and hungover and has to be suspended for another game (KC). He then came into camp out of shape AGAIN this season. I guess Ireland should've set up a bunk bed at VD's house to make sure he stayed in shape. Or maybe Ireland should have traded him since he wasnt goign to re-sign him anyway. I dunno.

I'm speechless.

LOL if Ireland is trading away players for future picks then he's either dumb as rocks or he's not in danger of being fired. I don't think he's that stupid, I'm guessing you disagree.

Good teams don't recruit (overpay) top FA talent they build trough the draft and retain their good players. I figured you'd know that before opining on what a good GM does/doesn't do. Nannee was given a vet minimum contact, what were you expecting? Randy Moss 2.0? Richard Marshall looks like a good signing but its only been one game so we'll see. Harbaugh has done a good job with a good team, we tried to get him and we failed. Are you saying we should not have tried to get him?

You're seriously exaggerating. We have a hole at WR and some depth issues on the OL. What team doesn't have holes anywhere?

Hard to say you're right or wrong when all you posted was opinion and conjecture. Nevertheless I respect the effort and I hope you do turn out to be wrong...

 

You really need somebody to tell you this.

You argue contrarian positions all the time to make yourself feel smart. You create arguments over points that nobody is making in order to then knock them down methodically (strawmen) to help your self esteem in this regard.

This is not a test of wits or intelligence. You are out-manned in both instances. So either make a serious argument as to why Ireland has done a good job, or get the **** out of the thread.

 

They've also got Ronnie Brown playing RB b/c they gave us their 2nd round pick & change to trade up for Ryan Matthews aka Mr. Stay Hurt. They shipped Cromartie off for a conditional 3rd round pick (we got a 2nd and 6th for Vontae). They let Brees walk for nothing at all. They've had a franchise QB since 2004 and they haven't won jack shi^t. They are in the worst division in the league and they struggle to make the playoffs. If you were a Chargers fan you'd be demanding that their GM be fired...

 

Speaking of strawmen. No one is saying Ireland has done a great job. He's just poking holes in the logic of the pitchfork holders.

 

Yet he has a better track record than Jeff Ireland.

You get the point.

 

no he isn't.

The "logic" of the pitchfork holders is on VERY solid ground. Getting stronger by the game. and of course, the "pitchfork holders" will be proven right when he gets fired this year.

 

Not sure that I do.

But I love the sig tho. Even if we do suck this year basketball will be along to save us all

 

Once again, stop talking and show me. You've done an extraordinary amount of talking and not backing any of it up for someone making those kind of claims.

Please, by all means tell me about how .500 is not actually average. Or show me where I've given Ireland credit for the same kind of stuff I've said he doesn't deserve blame on. Or respond to pick by pick comparisons I've made between the Dolphins and other teams. Or show me where I've suggested Ireland has done a great job.

Or even just demonstrate you have any idea what straw man means.

 

The truly frightening possibility is Miami might let Jake Long go if Ireland is still around. Could you imagine that? I cringe at the thought.

 

It puzzles me when Ireland supporters want some sort of "proof" that Ireland is mediocre ( at best) .

How about the team is mediocre , not generally competitive and he has had years to make it better all the while having full support from ownership.

The roster is mediocre , Ireland is mediocre , expect mediocre results going forward as long as he is GM . For anyone that requires proof I'll just point you to the 2012 Dolphin roster .

Is this what the goal is? Mediocrity? Should the organization not work towards getting the best personnel possible for all key positions? Is Ireland viewed with any objectivity first in class?

Of course not .

 

I dunno man, I just disagree. I can tell you I'm 100% not a Jeff Ireland fan. Not even close. I just don't think our roster is as devoid of talent as you and others do. I think a lot of the criticism has to do with the team not wining games. Sparano was fired and now Philbin is in charge. If Ireland can't put a team together over the next few years he'll be gone too. No sense campaigning for him to get canned in Week 1 tho...

 

LOL what Ireland supporters?

If there's an "Official Lets Extend Ireland's contract" thread I must have missed it.

 

A middle of the road record isn't really all that good grounds to suggest a GM is bad or good when an NFL fan for any length of time should be pretty aware of the ability for talent to under and over perform with coaching, etc.

 

At this point I'd settle for lets replace Ireland with X.

 

Cool. This post I quoted...is a strawman argument.

Your pick for pick comparisons are terrible, poorly thought out, and lack context of needs and the board at the time of each pick. Basically, it's irrelevant.

 

What is that actually supported by?

 

Just the rumors that was going around of Jake Long possibly being traded. I could see Jeff Ireland if Jake Long gets injured again not throwing the money Long wants.

Also for everyone using or not using Fallacies here you go.

http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

 

Bud there was a huge thread just this last week on how Ireland has been great . I'm too tired to look it up but I posted in it.

 

That's still not doing it. Hint: It's not a comment you don't like.

Which is funny because you didn't have anything substantive then, and I'm pretty well certain you neither read it just now or are capable of finding it.

 

My view on Ireland is he has done an okay job so far. But is okay good enough? Is an okay performance at QB good enough?...No. Is an okay performance at DE good enough?...No. Is an okay HC good enough?...No. An okay job at GM is not good enough! He needs to step up and put together a mature roster fast. This roster is not ready to contend yet and after 4years you would think it is somewhere close but it is STILL at its infancy.

I don't know if he should be replaced or given a little more time because I don't know who is out there or how to compare his performance so far. I don't follow NFL front office personel but he needs to get his butt into gear. The natives are restless!

 

It's supported by "might", the possibility of. As in, the sun might not come up tomorrow.

 

If that's what you drew from that thread then you fundamentally misunderstood multiple things.

 

Alright I'm going to voice a very unpopular opinion.

I would be 100% for trading Jake Long for the correct compensation.

 

Team generally sucks , he has had time to make them not suck , they still suck. I rest my case . It's not as complicated as you make it sound.

You are a smart guy , apply the principle of Occam's Razor and tell me what you come up with .

 

I already explained what a strawman argument is. I even defined it in the context of one of your "arguments". You are doing that thing again that you do to help your self esteem. Try that with somebody that isn't smarter than you.

and I remember your post. It was exactly as I described. The kind where you read halfway through and then decide to not waste much more time with it.

 

What's the compensation for a perennial Pro Bowl tackle and likely Hall of Fame guy (assuming he stays healthy)? I don't think there are any number of draft picks that would suffice.

 

Alright Fredo, settle down. You're just as good and smart as anyone else.

Pointing out something and claiming it is a straw man isn't "explaining". That's another completely different concept I don't have time to teach you, but what you tried to do was give an example. But that's good for now I guess.

Now maybe you can move on to supporting any of the comments you've previously made? As a refresher... tell me about how .500 is not actually average. Or show me where I've given Ireland credit for the same kind of stuff I've said he doesn't deserve blame on. Or respond to pick by pick comparisons I've made between the Dolphins and other teams. Or show me where I've suggested Ireland has done a great job.

 

But not as smart as Section126 or so I hear, so be gentle with me.

I don't think the team "sucks". The team has been roughly .500 on Ireland's tenure. That's nothing to be excited about or satisfied with, but it doesn't suck. It's virtually exactly average as far as the NFL is concerned.

If the team was rocking a .300 something record like some teams have done for nearly an entire decade, then that's pretty proof evident someone has done a ****ty job as a GM. Our record with Ireland simply isn't, hence the need to go further.

 

You can drop that BS. That's not my name.

ok, point for point so you can understand.

I never argued that .500 is not average. (Strawman #1)

You give credit for that 11-5 in order to claim that .500 record. That 11-5 was due to Chad Pennington who signed due to Parcells. (not a strawman, just dishonesty on your part)

Your pick by pick comparison sucked, so I choose to ignore it. You should to. Why draw attention to that?

You argue on behalf of Ireland in every damn thread, so you are either a sociopath, or you believe he has done a job worth defending.

 

Jake is undoubtedly a great player. My opinion of trading him has nothing to do with his play.

In my opinion however it's foolish to tie up the amount of money Jake will command into a left tackle. The game has progressed in a way that you don't see the best pass rusher lining up over the best lineman every down, and in my opinion the left tackle position has become grossly overrated.

I'd rather have a serviceable left tackle while acquiring a high draft pick and diverting the salary elsewhere. For example if someone wanted to give up a top ten pick I would take it and never look back. Obviously this player could end up being a bust but it's the risk you take trying to find game changers and play makers.

 

You gonna change that avatar?

 

A General Manager's tenure should be a progressive thing, with peaks that keep his job for the valleys that then ultimately come, because you know he is capable of producing another peak.

Ireland has given us one steady drop into a valley with no peak in sight. But some want to look at the overall record as some type of indication of how the franchise has progressed.

Ask the ticket office, what they think of this product. The numbers speak for themselves.

This team is irrelevant and ignored by the local fan base. That has only occurred under one general manager's watch.

 

I'm actually kind of still mourning David. Soon though...I just need time.

 

Yes, it's a movie reference.

Not explicitly, but you very clearly disagreed with the concept. You claimed Parcells crapped on the team, used a barely coherent STD metaphor to suggest that the team's performance wasn't far from worst case scenario, etc.

If you think .500 is average, virtually everything you've said in this thread belies that.

You just got done(inappropriately, I might add) suggesting that I will attribute positives to Ireland while using Parcells to insulate him from negative choices, and you're unable to keep your own understanding straight?

There was literally no magic to signing Chad Pennington. It was a logical decision for pretty much anyone running the franchise.

Well again, ignoring the fact you didn't read it and couldn't find it again without help, it's sort of an inherent part of the argument that I've gone out and made substantive arguments while you've just posted that things suck.

Oh wow, like you literally just did.

You catch on quick?

 

Parcells was part of the problem, he bailed out when things got rough and threw Ireland(which Ireland did to Sparano to save his own job, the apple doesnt fall far from the tree) under the bus, because he is afraid of his legacy being proven as the fraud that it is.
Not like anyone at ESPN has the balls to call him out on it.

Dont take what I said about Sparano as me defening the fist pumper, Ireland handled that situation as weasley as possible.

 

If you have any proof that Chad Pennington signs here if Parcells is not in charge, then share it, because Chad himself has said he had other offers and Parcells was the deciding factor.

Other than that, the rest of the crap you posted is more of your rehashed ramblings, that some make fun of you about.

So ...sociopath or you think he has done a job worth defending? You answered "Job worth defending", so you think he has done a good job, because mediocre 5 year tenures get people fired. So explain why he should not be fired at years end, or detail the meds you need to keep posting in this thread regularly.

 

The thing about this 0.500 record stuff is it ignores what records came when.

The fact of the matter is the team was still two-thirds pre-Ireland in 2008 when they amassed the 11-5 record that keeps Jeff Ireland's win percentage at 0.484 instead of 0.417. The more Jeff Ireland cycled in his own players in place of players that were on roster in 2007, the worse the team did. They were 11-5 in 2008, then 7-9 in 2009 with an average margin of loss of 9 points, then 7-9 in 2010 with an average margin of loss of 12.4 points, then 6-10 in 2011. The more Jeff Ireland made the roster "his" the less Tony Sparano was able to do with it. And now evidently Sparano goes up to New York and takes Mike Tannenbaum's roster and puts up 34 points of offense in a game with it. Oops.

It's not just what the total record is, it's the directional trend. The Dolphins just keep continuing a slow downward spiral. It's very similar to the downward spiral that Dave Wannstedt guided the team through, except Dave started off with more talent than Jeff.

 

How much do you think Jonathan Baldwin could be had for?