WTF, you said Pat White was a playmaker. Pat White a QB. I seriously hope the mods have seen enough now to know you are trolling and do something about it.
Ah, I see where this is going. You're either right with your claim that Parcells made the White selection (of which there's no factual evidence) or you're right with your claim that Ireland didn't have final say over the roster (of which there's factual evidence to the contrary). Kudos to a nice game of semantics.
Pat White wasn't drafted to be a QB. He was brought in to run the Wildcat, not be a QB. This according to your own "evidence". So no, I don't, and neither does anybody else including you, consider Pat White to be a QB.
That's exactly what it is. Yet here you are with your panties in wad anytime someone uses a similar argument that whether or not Ireland was a GM, or a "GM", the team still failed to improve, proving whatever capacity he's been in with this team, has been rather useless.
That's all you got? Figures. You knew you were beat from the get go however. Don't sit here and play dumb that Pat White was drafted to be a QB. You're not dumb enough to compare what Pat White was brought in to do, compared to what Chad Henne and Tannehill were brought in to do. They're completely different.
Of course it is. First you claim that Ireland didn't have final say. People point out that he did, as stipulated by his contract and by league rules. Then you claim that Parcells admitted to "making" the White pick. People point out that he didn't. Third you claim that two wrongs, semantically, make for one right.
How the hell else am I supposed to approach your argument when you say the QB Pat White was not drafted to be a QB but instead was drafted to be the QB of the wildcat? There is no other way to take what you're saying without invoking the Baker Act.
Nope. The contract proves nothing other than that there was a contract. He did make the Pat White pick and he admitted it. All anyone else has said is that Ireland "admitted" he did it. No one has proved anything one way or the other. As for your last point, it is not semantics. Parcells either had the power to veto that pick or he didn't. How is that semantics?
Exactly. You want links that shows who was in charge? Here: www.google.com spend a few minutes researching it.
Because you're deliberately ignoring the likely possibility that the Pat White selection was a joint decision by both Ireland and Parcells, and that Ireland, for all we actually know, may as well have been the driving force behind it. You're also ignoring the fact that Ireland, by the rules of a legally binding contract, had every power to veto that pick - but didn't.
I underestimated you. I thought I was being truthful when I said you're not that dumb. Woops. Chad Henne was drafted to play QB. Ryan Tannehill was drafted to play QB. Pat White was not drafted to play QB. It really is that simple. But enough of that since it's too diffidult of a concept to grasp for you, we cna go back to discussing how the team went from 7 to 6 wins in Ireland's first year as a GM instead of a "GM", and that's been useless at improving the team whether as a GM or "GM". 2 facts you can't spin your way out of.
Hit the nail on the head. Gotta love how Ireland's apologists refuse to accept the theory that Parcells and Ireland were making joint decisions. Everything has to be Parcells vetoing everything and taking away all the power given to Ireland by his contract. Poor little Ireland had no say.
You said Parcells was responsible for the White pick. Whether or not it's because he actually made the pick, or because Ireland made the pick and didn't veto it, he's still responsible. That's semantics.
Sigh. I'm deliberately doing nothing of the sort. How can it be a joint decision if Ireland had all the power? Please explain that. Joint decisions are between one or more parties that have shared control.
No it isn't. Unless of course you're saying that if he was against the idea it would have happened anyway. In which case.....I dunno....
Really you going there? Yet you "hater" are objective? OK Do we have to lable people? How about lets label people here Dolphin fans
Not usually. But there's certainly something going on with you today if you can't grasp the very simple concept that Pat White was not brought in to be a starting QB like Henne and Tannehill were.
Nice quantifier you pulled out of your ***..."starting". No one said Pat White was meant to be the starting QB. No one. It wasn't even what you were arguing against until just now when you realized you were wrong. Pat White was drafted to be a QB, end of story.
Of course I'm going there. Why wouldn't I? That's the argument that Ireland's apologists have put forward in this thread. That Parcells made all the decisions so Ireland should not be held accountable his first 3 years. A dumb argument I know. I'll stick with the bigger picture. Ireland has never been a good GM here since he's either been a "GM" or the GM of a team that went from 7 to 6 wins, and I've seen nothing at all to make me think he's going to be a good GM either, making looking into a more qualified replacement a necessity. Try not to confuse reality with hating next time.
He was, absolutely. One of the those All-in, let's just see what happens plays. Just sucks it was in the second round. Oh, Jeffrey. You have split up the fanbase. You are screwed regardless...
Exactly. Just a stupid draft pick all around. The fact that he was drafted to run the Wildcat, and not as a QB as one would like you to believe, makes that pick even dumber. Who drafts a guy in the 2nd round to run a few plays a game in one formation...
I credited facts, which I still haven't seen from you. It's a fact Ireland convinced Jerry Jones to draft Ware with Dallas's first pick, and it's a fact that he was in charge of pro and college scouting during that draft while Parcells was only Dallas's head coach rather than the czar he became in Miami. It's a fact that he helped put together that draft. However, from '08-'10, outside of Ireland being in charge of the later rounds & rookie FAs, I've yet to see any factual stuff about specific players being drafted by him, but what I have seen is Ireland, Parcells, organizational sources, and reporters stating directly or indirectly that Parcells was in charge and that Ireland's first draft by himself was in 2011, and that Parcells could step in any time he saw fit while his protege was developing. It's also a fact that Channing Crowder referenced Parcells trying to mold Ireland in his own image, which only happens if Parcells, not Ireland, is running the ship and has final say. Even the Miami Dolphins press release admits to Parcells running the show and that the duties are now being passed on to Ireland. The difference between '05 in Dallas and '08-'10 in Miami was Dallas's blueprint for defensive players wasn't inherently flawed like Miami's for offensive. Ireland was able to scout and identify players for a Dallas defensive scheme that mattered, and that's the main point. What he did in Miami from '08-'10 is pretty much irrelevant b/c we now know the offensive scheme & blueprint he was trying to identify players for was significantly flawed from the start, and if the scheme & blueprint are flawed and outdated, it's not going to matter what players you bring into it. I conducted a poll in a separate thread for this very reason, and it was unanimous that our offensive personnel would've looked different had Philbin & Sherman been here from day 1 instead of Sparano & Henning, and if it would've looked different, then no one can say with any true accuracy whether or not the players scouted & drafted for it would've been the correct ones. Now, considering our defensive scheme wasn't massively flawed, and as such Ireland had no problems helping to fit players into it and make it successful, it's possible that he could've done the same on offense had the scheme & blueprint been better from the start.
In your world perhaps. In everyone else's world however, running the wildcat a few times a game does not make you a QB. And then you consider he was asked to switch to WR, in which he said he'd rather play baseball, and then followed up on that promise by playing baseball... It's just an incredibly silly argument that you're trying to make for no reason whatsoever. If you see Pat White as a QB, go right ahead. But me and everyone else don't. Nobody but you would consider him in the same capacity as Chad Henne and Ryan Tannehill. Those guys were brought in to play QB. There really is no point to this argument other than you just wanting to waste my time in spite since I know you're not as dumb as you're trying to be in this particular debate so I'll end this debate so we can go back to discussing how bad Ireland has been at his job as a GM or "GM", or whatever it is you consider him to be.
First off, yes if Bill Parcells wasn't hot on the idea, it very well could have happened anyway. Secondly, even if the idea ended up in the trash can because Bill raised a stink, does not mean he had veto power. That's just an error in logic. If Jeff Ireland wants a guy at a certain position and the position coach and/or regional scout jump on the table and say we don't want this guy, there's a pretty strong possibility Ireland isn't going to take the guy. Does that mean they had veto power? No. Not even close.
That won't happen, JMH. You see, with people like him, if you don't immediately share his same extreme viewpoint or belief, you're automatically treated with no respect as well as pigeonholed into some moniker category (like "apologist"). According to his irrational attitude, it doesn't matter if you've yet to make up your mind on Ireland b/c you're automatically labeled an apologist b/c that's the most convenient way for him to dismiss any valid argument since he never has one himself. Your argument for Ireland could be "that you don't think he deserves to be fired", which is entirely different than arguing that "you believe he's a great GM", but you'd still be labeled as a Kool-Aid drinking, apologist, fan club member. It's easier to laugh at his kindergarten ways than to let it get to you.
Really? So who hired the entire coaching staff? ..... you know--- the incompetent ones that no longer exist.
Wait, so now you're attempting to redefine what final say means? Sorry, I can't continually reply to posts that lack intellectual honesty.
That's a very weak argument b/c the entire NFL knows the contract was worded as such to steal Ireland away from Dallas. Even the Dolphins organization essentially admitted to such during their statement upon Parcells stepping down as czar and turning it over control to Ireland. If Ireland had final say, he would've hired his OWN coaches in '08. The first obvious clue regarding who was in charge was the one who chose the coaches. Plus, it was Parcells that chose Ireland, not the other way around. On top of that Ireland stated 2011 was his first year running the draft, which means if he wasn't running it prior to 2011, then someone else was. If Parcells didn't have final say he wouldn't mention his ability to intervene whenever he saw his protege about to step in some muck, and it was Parcells, not Ireland, who would step in with issues involving Sparano, hence another indication of who was in charge. The wording of his contract has proven to mean little until the team was finally turned over to him in '11.
No, you're attempting to redefine who actually was in charge by using the wording in his contract as a loophole. Why don't you want to answer the question? Who hired the initial coaching staff?
Pat White would have excelled at WR in the NFL, imo. I always thought he woud accept the eventual transition. I was wrong. That is the ONLY reason Pat White was an NFL bust.
I do think Ireland cuts bait too early with nearly everyone but the coaches. Donald Thomas is, for example, the starting right guard for the New England Patriots. And we are still searching for a halfway competent guy at that position.
He would have had to put in a ton of work in the weight room to have even the slightest chance. There's no denying his ability in the open field. With hard work and determination he could of been someone in the slot. However, considering his quick retirement from football, and quick retirement from baseball, it's obvious he was never going to put in any work.
