The Subtle Redefinition of the Miami Dolphins Player

I agree with most of this. Yes, going character over talent will get you mediocre talent at best. But at the same time you can't go completely the other way either, then you're the Bengals of a few years ago.

 

I disagree. I think one can easily find two plays from Ginn that were actually successful that showed more than Gates. Including his beautiful touchdown catch, his return for a touchdown where he juked two guys and the few plays where he completely beat his guy, the ball was under thrown, then he jumped up and caught the ball.

In their first two years Ginn looks to be a much better football player than Gates.

 

The world is littered with guys that are talented enough to play in the NFL. There is a reason why not every NFL player runs a 4.5 and has a 40" vertical.

 

Let's take a look at five payers that were on our team..

Marshall, Johnson, Davis, Jerry, Carey..all very talented football players, all pretty unprofessional..what does that get us Nasty?

Maybe we should rethink the philosophy a bit..because it seems as though the acquisitions have been favoring the strategy you are refferring to, in some cases pretty obvious.

I know if I was a Gm, it would give some precedence in the evaluation as it pertains to the players intelligence on work ethic and self awareness...especially players that are hi round picks, if they don't get it by the senior year, or the year they decide to come out( Landry jones, Ryan mallet) then it should be justifiably so, a serious red flag on where their at mentally.

 

The Patriots are consistantly good to great because they have high character guys. Look at their Super Bowl winning years. Other than Brady, who had HoF talent on those teams? What players left the Patriots and did as well as they did there? Why do you think the Patriots can keep winning even though they miss on a GREAT deal of draft picks and flip over their roster almost every season? Good coaching and high character players. Even when they take a chance on an iffy player they will cut that player fast if they fall out of line.

 

We lost a ton of production and our best offensive player in Marshall and arguably our best defensive playmaker in Vontae and John Jerry is...John Jerry.

I think you can attribute the lack of success of this team to several key factors, but I think the lack of professionalism of those guys was probably pretty low on the list.

If we had 2 other WR's like Brandon Marshall and an entire secondary of Vontae's I think we'd have been ok. Vontae wasn't a bad guy by any means and I think his character issues were really overblown, mostly by people who wanted to spin that into some sort of good trade. It wasn't.

 

I think its pretty fair to say that the WR that berates the QB and forces coaches to quit is having a negative impact on the team.

His character issues were overblown. Which is why him being the 3rd CB is an indication that he just wasn't as good as people want to believe.

 

Ginn was farther ahead, ginn could run routes, catch passes in different parts of the field.

His lack if reps, just visual production, in preseason and regular season games was just bad.

 

The thing with Marshall is that he's a ticking time bomb. Philbin wasn't comfortable with that so he's gone.

Vontae had/has all the skill in the world, but it's evident that he's about as smart as this chocolate covered almond I'm about to eat. It's obvious that Philbin and Coyle (possibly Ireland) did not think he'd get much better in their system...so they traded him while he still had value.

Again, I ask what players (besides Brady) play for the Patriots have all world skills? Not many. However, the thing that the majority of them do have is character. Hell, even Brady isn't all that spectacular as far as skill level. He's just such a smart, high character guy that he shines.

 

I edited my post X..I had five players..Marshall..Carey..Davis..Jerry..Johnson.

You don't see a trend?

 

Ginn always struggled with contact and could never figure out hand placement. I was a big Ginn supporter but he was the opposite of a football player. He was fast and he worked hard but he lacked Gates instincts.

 

Until you can prove that those guys would've been detrimental to the teams performance, no. Replace Marshall and Vontae with the greatest character guys in the league, if they can't duplicate their production then it doesn't matter how professional they are.

 

Those teams were talented. Lets not act like they weren't. Also, Corey Dillon wasn't the most professional RB in league history.

 

Sure it does, if they are detracting from the production of others.

In regards to proof of Marshall's detriment, look no further than Karl Dorrell moving from WR coach to QB coach because he no longer wanted to work with Marshall.

 

A lot of that is true, but we're only talking about the comparison, thus far its hard to compare such bad data...I do think Ginn played much better than gates in their rookie year, even though Ginn was 4 years younger..

 

Every starting player and every back-up player on every team in the NFL is talented. Dillon straightened up once he became a Patriot. Randy Moss did too..until he reverted and was cut.

Again, what Patriot players went to other teams and had the same success they had in New England? I can't think of one.

 

What others on this team did he detract production from? Bess? Hartline?

I don't see what Dorrell has to do with anything.

 

Of course, talent is a relative term. Some teams are more talented than others. Some teams have first ballot HOF QB's, like New England, and some don't.

 

What if Dorrell worked well with Bess and Hartline? What if their production was effected by having to change coaches?

Marshall is a cancer. Yes, he's talented, can't catch worth a ****, but he could let the ball bounce off of his hands a lot. I guess that means he got open?

 

the trend I see is highly talented players with issues, subsequently 4 Have been dismissed in their primes, and one is hanging on the edge of glory..

I won't bore you and get into detail of performance related things but I'm referring to the evaluation process from the get, what standards are in place from the get, should there be adjustments made to those standards and the if we can quantify which players collectively, can win more games.

 

One player. So?

The worst running back in the league isn't that far away, in regards to skill level, from the best running back in the league. The same goes with every other position. The BIGGEST factor between HOF level and good level is character.

 

I couldn't disagree more. I would once again point out guys like Irvin, Deion and others who were HOF players and low-character people.

Having better character doesn't make you a better player. You're talking about an intangible.

 

I guess I should have been more clear. Team character. Deion and Irvin were players with good football character. Hell, even then those two didn't really have any problems in or out of football while they played. It was when they retired that they got in trouble.

 

I think Irvin and Deion inspired their teammates and coaches, not berated them.

 

You don't see how Brandon Marshall causing Dorrell to move is a negative? What type of environment do you think would cause a WR coach to move to QB coach because of one player?

 

As I said last week, I'd encourage you to read Pearlman's book about the Cowboys. Here's an excerpt:

Bottom line, the Cowboys were so good it didn't matter. Hence Talent >>>>>>>> Character.

 

My training is as a scout. I look for what will and won't be developed. What Ginn was lacking wasn't changing despite several years in the league. Gates only had one year in the NFL. The argument against Gates was that he wasn't working as hard as professional should, but he already should more instincts and body and hand control than Ginn ever did.

 

First off, is this a fact? Did Dorrell come out and say this? I ask because I honestly don't know.

Secondly, I think environment is overrated. I think Brandon Marshall had great production here, and I'm not sure if his character level was that of Mother Theresa would the Dolphins record have been any different. Do you?