Karlos Dansby, Reggie Bush talk Vontae Davis trade

Exactly.

The focus here IMO is far too much on whether these players "like" Joe Philbin.

If Joe Philbin were making decisions from the position of being liked first and foremost, I'd want him fired.

 

If a fallacy gets repeated often enough, pretty soon the people who cannot think for themselves will begin to believe it. You're a regular little Joseph Goebbels ain't ya?

 

Thanks for posting that - you're right, I do'nt see anything wrong with Bush's comments.

But Dansby mouthing off this much seems way out of line to me. Not sure what he has done to earn that right.

 

Ive seen quite a few posts that were supportive of trading Dansby.

And I think it's a major stretch to say that Dansby (or anyone) will be traded b/c of what Philbin, the first time HC with zero games as a HC at any level under his belt, thinks. According to what Ive read VD wasnt put on the block, the Colts came asking about him and Ireland listened, like any good GM would. I've read nothing about Philbin going to anyone asking that Vontae be jettisoned.

IIRC Sean Smith lost his job to Jason Allen a couple years ago, because he was goofing off in training camp, I believe. Does that mean Sparano wanted Sean traded? I doubt it. In fact, it was Allen who ended up getting cut. Most likely the coaches were benching Sean to get his attention and our current coaches were doing the same with Vontae. Coaches and players don't typically have the luxury of looking ahead, stacking draft picks, building for the future etc. They are worried about winning the next game. Losing Vontae makes that harder to do, period. And it wreaks of Ireland, not Philbin. IMO.

If Philbin is in Ireland's ear saying anything its probably "please get me some NFL WR's", not "please trade some of my dwindling supply of good players". Or is Ireland ignoring the offensive gurus pleas for offensive talent and taking his advice on what defenders to get rid of? Anything is possible I guess.

 

Fail forward fast has crossed my mind recently too.

 

Oh ok, I was under the impression that Vontae had all world talent he wasn't living up to by coming to camp always out of shape and getting demoted by every coach he's played for. In reality, I'm just petty. Thanks for clearing that up with your inside knowledge of me and Vontae.

 

Your'e drinking WAY too much Philbin kool-aid and I've never used that expression in my life!

 

Personally...I think you have to play it out and see what you have before you get rid of everyone.

Sure, some players you know right off the bat aren't what you want personality wise. However, come the first game they might be producers that you need and they produce how you want. You might not like them, they might not like you. Still...they produce.

As the coach he has to win now. He has a year to play with here since he is the new coach in town...but that will only last so long. I can see how he would want to get them out now, but I just think he can also let it play out into the season and then make moves before the deadline if it isn't working out.

Still, getting a 2nd and a 6th for Davis is pretty damn good and hard to pass up if they come calling.

 

They took a 2nd round pick for the teams best CB.
That tells me trading him was probably talked about, maybe even decided upon.
And where was it posted that Indy contacted us? I've seen it speculated that that is what happened, but I've seen no proof of it.

 

But the point remains he was still the best CB this team had.

 

Sarcasm duly noted. There ain't been a damned thing wrong with the work ethic or subordination of Bush, Misi or Moore. Dansby not so much, considering he showed up overweight last season. I don't know which players are regarded as angels, and I doubt you do either, unless you've seen the secret NFL list of Angel Players.

 

Certainly the coaching staff didn't agree.

 

WTF?

Goebbels? Really?

If Vontae has all wortld talent and hasn't shown that talent, get this ****, that's called underperforming. Maybe if you weren't headlong into your mancrush on him you'd realize he didn't perform to the level he should have. But I'm a Nazi?

My god we got more for Vontae than we did for Surtain and Vontae couldn't even sniff Surtain's production.

How many years does it take for a player to be professional enough to come into camp in shape and then exceed expectations, before you're satisfied...obviously more than 4.

 

By what margin? Not enough of one to keep him apparently.

 

Geeze, he said CAN BE, not WILL BE. Even the anti-Davis crowd around here, should admit he has the ability to be an All Pro.
He's only 24. If one were to bet Davis will never make the Pro Bowl or be elected All Pro by age 30, I'd say that is not a very safe bet.

 

Our DB contingent is less talented and will be less effective without Vontae this season. That is the only absolute in this entire thing.

 

Wait, if he can be but hasn't yet, you don't classify that as under performing? lol.

Should I call you Pol-Pot?

 

Obviously.
I don't even completely disagree with trading Davis. But I don't believe the notion that they never talked about it until Indy called (I'm not even convinced Indy made the first call. Do we even have prove of that?). I think the coaching staff decided they didn't like VD's attitude and didn't have use for him.
He may not of had the best attitude amongst the CB's, but he certainly had the best talent.

 

Especially by those trying to justify the rationale of trading Davis.

 

I'm not even sure that's true.
Too the coaching staff, I think his lack of professionalism trumped the fact he was the best CB on the roster.

 

I think if Indy doesn't call, VD is till on the team and in time he either plays his way to the top or off the team.

 

100%.

 

A hissy fit? Who threw a hissy fit? Isn't that pretty clearly an exaggeration? Yet it was good for 4 Fist Bumps.

 

Again, do we even have proof that Indy called first. Or is that pure speculation on your part?
To use your line, I'm not trying to be a dick, I've just never seen anything other than speculation that Indy made the first move.

 

But of course that option wouldn't result in a 2nd-round pick.

 

go get a 2nd rounder for Bush.....but he wont.....

 

Hmmm, I can't believe you missed the thread about this and everything, but here's the link:

Link

 

I did miss it.
But because of who it was written by, I know why I missed it.

I don't read garbage, from garbage men.

 

Interesting point. I feel like Sparano/Ireland gave lip service to players' character, and a few times did the opposite. Whereas with Philbin/Ireland try seem to walk the talk, even cutting off appendages they need.

Lol.

 

He might be an All-Pro ever season from now till he's past 30. Or he could be out of the league in a couple years. That's the issue. I like Vontae, he plays like a CB should and I give zero ****s if he came in out of shape for camp as along as he's ready for the regular season. Just like I give zero ****s that Dansby and Burnett took most of the preseason off.

I think he was demoted for goofing around, but I think he was traded b/c Ireland decided he didn't want to invest in him long term and that an extra 2nd round pick was preferrable to keeping him for another 2 seasons. Players on the team arent trying to hear that next April **** though. It's up to leaders like Dansby and Bush to be the ones putting it out there, they speak for the guys who can't/won't speak up in public. I have no problem with that either. It'd rather the players express their frustration and move on than have a locker room full of resentment. Right or wrong it's not like Ireland, Philbin, or any of the team's decision makers have earned the right to make decisions like this without being questioned.

 

So you mean ability, not performance I take it?

Because we probably all agree Vontae had the highest ceiling.

 

This should answer your questions.

The Colts called first. And Vontae wasn't a starter.

 

Yes, poor Steve Smith was just an innocent victim.

 

I mean talent wise.
Vontae Davis was the most talented CB on the roster.
But he was also the least professional.

 

There is a double edged sword when it comes to behavior and attitude. You can be seen as a disciplinarian who only hires lunch pail type guys and while that sounds good and all, it's idealistic.

The flipside is we have a coach unwilling or unable to help an immature player along. Sometimes players will never grow up. TO, Chris Henry, etc.

But then you see a Sean Taylor mature, and he was 10x worse than Vontae Davis. You see Vincent Jackson and Jared Allen get rid of the alcohol problems. You see Bill Belichick take on all types of players who don't fit the BB mold. He attempts to mold them then cuts it off when he realizes he cannot.

Do we have a coach unwilling to even try to mold players who will miss out on players such as Corey Dillon, Randy Moss, Vernon Davis, etc. etc.?

 

Vontae started that skirmish with Steve Smith?!

 

I'll admit it was an exaggeration - but we're in the middle of a thread where the fans have created a giant cat-fight between the leaders and the coaches that may not even exist - it was hardly the worst offender.

And while I understand the NFL is a different animal - having a problem with something and going to talk about it with reporters rather than the people who are responsible isn't exactly a sign of maturity.

 

Fair enough.
Like I said, I didn't read that article because I don't read anything from that douchebag.

I understand why he was traded. I don't understand how people can say he wasn't the best CB on the roster.....and don't say because the depth chart said so.
We all know his spot ob the depth chart had to do with attitude, not talent.

 

This is Vontae's fourth season. At what point is it ok to give up on a player, especially when there's a 2nd rd pick being offered?

 

In retrospect, the right thing for Jeffy to do would have been draft a WR for Tannehill, like Cincy did for Dalton. Except in his case it was before the fact. We should have taken Alshon Jeffery and added a RT in the 3rd round.