2012 MLB Thread

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by Fin-Omenal, Apr 8, 2012.

  1. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    :lol::lol::lol:

    This is either too......

    A) sell tickets, or

    B) this is the year Roger gets voted on to go into the Hall, the same as Barry and I dont think he wants to do it yet....so if he throws one pitch in MLB it resets the clock 5 years...
     
  2. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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  3. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    C) All of the above.

    This is obviously both a stunt to generate some extra revenue in Houston in September (I bet they cut a deal where Clemens only pitches in Houston) and also for Clemens to have his HOF clock reset with hopes that voters in another 5 years will be more forgiving to PED guys and of course so Clemens can hire a PR firm to help build up his rep.

    I honestly hope if this does happen it turns out horrible for both Clemens and Houston. Nothing against either Clemens or Houston but I hope Clemens pitches badly and Houston doesn't draw a dime from this because if this works out what's to stop another MLB team from doing something like this? What if the Braves if they were bad sign Hank Aaron to try to have him hit another HR or something silly like that. It would make a mockery of the game.
     
  4. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Okay I see your point, but what if he does well in the minors? and shows he still has it? hahahah this is INSANE!!!!!

    Sad part is the Sox could use him, hell even NY could use another arm...just think of Waldman going batsh$t in the booth again...
     
  5. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I'm pretty confident that as badly as the pitchers have been for the Red Sox and a much lesser extend the Yankees, thinking a mid 40 year old pitcher who hasn't pitched in the big leagues or anywhere in 4 years would be a better option than anything in the major league or minor league roster is foolish.

    If he reaches the MLB level and pitches well more power to him but come on the odds of that are smaller than Roger's _______ after he started taking PEDs.
     
  6. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    50!!! the guy is FIFTY!!!!!! again insane.......utterly...I hope he does come in and dominate.....at least it will make the time go by until October...
     
  7. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Wow bad mistake on my part. He's no Jamie Moyer though....
     
  8. King Felix

    King Felix Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    the PED era isn't over..how pathetic
     
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  9. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    Davie
    I guess the Dodgers are going all in, huh.
     
  10. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    and the horse they rode in on!
     
  11. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    CBSSports.com Baseball Insider Jon Heyman reports Sunday that Baltimore has traded for starting pitcher Joe Saunders from Arizona. The Arizona Republic reported Saturday night that the Diamondbacks had found a trade partner and it is apparently the Orioles. MLB.com has confirmed the trade, which is Saunders and cash to Baltimore for reliever Matt Lindstrom and a player to be named later.
     
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  12. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Rocket is blasting off again!!!!
     
  13. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Padres pitcher Casey Kelly was called up from Double-A San Antonio to make his major-league debut in Monday's series opener against the Braves. The top prospect impressed by working six scoreless innings, giving up just three hits while striking out four in the 3-0 win. The right-hander threw 53 of his 87 pitches for strikes and walked two batters. Kelly also went 1 for 2 at the plate, singling in the fifth inning off Paul Maholm for his first big-league hit.
     
  14. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Casey Kelly!
     
  15. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Bust...................
     
  16. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Actually Reymond Fuentes is looking that way, putting up awful numbers in Double A this year.

    I know non-Red Sox fans don't think so but for 1 year of control for Adrian Gonzalez for Anthony Rizzo, Casey Kelly and Reymond Fuentes (even if it's looking like he's not going to do much if at all in the MLB) was a pretty good/fair trade on the Padres part.

    I would love to know what the scouts/experts think is a better return for Gonzalez if they'd rather have Rizzo/Kelly/Fuentes or De La Rosa/Webster/Sands/DeJesus. I haven't read or seen anyone comment on it yet.
     
  17. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Dang the new TV deal from ESPN just doubled, and you know the LAD will have a brand new huge local TV deal....so lots of $$$ for all 30 teams to split from NATL broadcasts and lots of $$$ for LAD to cover their acquired players with new local deal too.
     
  18. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    The team will still have to possibly pay a luxury tax and the extra money coming in doesn't include any sunk cost or dead weight if those players they traded for stopped performing at a high level. It's not like just because they have a new TV deal with money coming in makes the trade any better on their side, what they did was still incredibly foolish.
     
  19. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    the trade for 2012 was not at all dumb on their part, they are a winner in this move to improve the lineup. The future is unknown, so nothing foolish can be determined. Now, looking back on the Red Sox and trading for AGon and signing Crawford, and Bobby V. haha, that was foolish and useless. Yes I agree, but its the Saux, and to be expected really.
     
  20. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Replacing Gonzalez with James Loney absolutely was an ungrade, no question. However Carl Crawford is a zero factor for 2012 and how much of an upgrade is Josh Beckett over whoever else they have in their system or could get? That's a big question. And as good of a player Adrian Gonzalez is, especially over Loney, he'll only be about a 2 win upgrade for the team. Hey those 2 wins could make the difference in the Dodgers making the playoffs or not.

    And yes I can absolutely say it was a foolish trade for them because you can't just say it's about 2012 but you're going to have Gonzalez and Crawford for 6 more years and Beckett for 2 more as well as losing the players they traded away and yes the money factor too. And it's not like those 3 players don't have major question marks attached to them, they do. Just because it might be a good deal for them for 2 or 3 months in 2012 doesn't mean that the deal still isn't a bad move, you have to look at the entire deal and while yes it's impossible to look into the future, in the post PED era of baseball most players don't get better after they turn 31/32.

    Yes signing Carl Crawford was absolutely foolish. Just dumb, especially for the money they gave him. Bobby Valentine, yes I think it was a dumb move too. Trading for Gonzalez, I don't think was either a bad move or dumb. It just didn't work out, sometimes it happens. If the Dodgers weren't willing on taking both Beckett and Crawford's salaries then Gonzalez would still be a Red Sox. The Sox didn't dump Gonzalez, they only traded him because they could wash their hands of Beckett and Crawford's money.
     
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  21. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    I dont get this fascination with how much money they are spending and claiming the future is locked when it comes to making moves, etc.

    The Sox made horrible decisions from 2008 plus....now the LAD are saying maybe we can do it differently. I just dont think taking on these contracts are the problem, what is the problem (but its not guaranteed) is how if anything reality shows these contracts to burden them for other contracts (but I am not about to project that its a lock). For instance if for some reason this prevents them from signing Kershaw.

    MLB Luxury tax is meaningless just as it was for Sox when they made their moves. Who cares if they are a $200M club? Its not bad for Baseball. Sox rotate out, and LAD rotate in. Big deal.

    Now if in 6 months, or less then 2 full seasons, they dont win anything and they cut bait and quit on the season I will say the same thing about LAD as I have about Marlins and Sox. Time will tell.
     
  22. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    The luxury tax with the new CBA is not meaningless. The reason why the Red Sox didn't do many moves in the offseason, like being able to sign a Kuroda type pitcher, was because they were handcuffed and didn't want to pay the extra money on the luxury tax which would have been around 20 to 30 million.

    And money is an issue, every team has a budget, even the Yankees, and I'm sorry but it's not smart to lock up players in their 30s and pay them 100 million, especially ones that are either hurt, on the decline or both. The Dodgers will have 4 guys on their active roster making 85 million for the next 6 years. You don't think that's a burden or will be in a few years when they aren't the same players they were? It has nothing to do with whether or not the Dodgers have a 200 million dollar club, it's that they took on ALL of the money owed to these players AND gave up prospects for them.

    Plus and this is the part I don't get, if you're admitting that the Sox made horrible decisions signing Adrian Gonzalez, Carl Crawford and Josh Beckett then how isn't it a horrible decision for the Dodgers to trade prospects for those same players who are 2 years older now?

    I just don't see how you can say these contracts won't be a problem in a few years. And it will absolutely limit how and who they can spend money on in the future. It always has in baseball. Again it prevented the Red Sox for making moves as early as last year. Maybe the Dodgers won't care about paying that high luxury tax but even so they're locked into those players, who again come with big risks, for the next 6 years.

    Bottom line it just wasn't a smart business move for them, just find me one person that thinks it was a good idea in the long run, not just for 2012 but beyond.
     
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  23. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Because as I stated the biggest problems the Sox have is not the product on the field. From market to media to clubhouse, Agon, CC and Beckett were bad fits, that proved out. Heck even the Yanks for some reason thought Loiza and Vazquez and Weaver were smart signings but the writing was on the wall that they didnt fit in the market, media, or clubhouse. It happens.

    Again, for Sox going forward, the problems are still not the product on the field.
     
  24. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Not sure how you can say the problem isn't the product on the team when their starting pitching has been awful (Lester has taken a big step backwards and Beckett is clearly on the decline) and their super players Pedroia, Gonzalez, Youkilis, Ellsbury and Crawford were either hurt most of the year and/or underperformed.

    The issues of this team is franchise wide, not just with the front office or ownership (they're not blame free of course).
     
  25. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    What I mean is the players dont fit, so the play is subpar. A crappy FO produces crappy product. And market and media have to match player mentality and personality to thrive. Fix the FO player acquisition and decisions, stop leaking crap to the media, stop backstabbing outgoing ex-employees, and its not about the money/contract, its about guts and mental makeup, and not creating an environment that just may turn off the next FA pool of talent that would fit, which will produce wins.

    stop feeding the beast of the media...they will write what they want, but stop giving them ammunition. You may not want to hear it, but Jeter does this as the Captain, never feeds the beast (he sets the example), just gives them the basics and the story dies cause its a non-story.

    LAD has a different culture and media an attitude, those same laid-back easy going players just may thrive in LALA Land.

    We probably just wont come to a meeting of the minds on this, and thats ok too.:hi5:
     
  26. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    The Red Sox, in 2011, were the best team in baseball from mid April to August and just had an awful September. They missed the playoffs by 1 game while still winning 90 games. That crappy front office won 2 WS titles. So I think you're going a bit overboard there. The front office shifted the way they ran the team since 2009 and it put them in a bad position. They started to hand up big free agent contracts to players that were big fits to the team, that's on the FO however the core they built still have to perform and they haven't this year.

    It's not as cut and dry or as easy as you're making it out to be. Again it's a team effort from ownership down to the players. It's not just the front office, players have to perform too.

    I'm actually happy with the direction of the team right now because I'm hopeful that this team is now Cherington's and he learned from Theo's mistakes. We'll see.
     
  27. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    3 straight years of missing the playoffs, including biggest collapse, and not making it during an expansion of qualifiers, yeah solid club the past few seasons in the decisions made. I dont sugarcoat it cause it is what it is and those are failures. You only have one direction to go and that is hopeful, but again, that culture hasnt changed. Lets see who gets fed to the wolves next - anonymously of course.

    And to be clear, my stance was this was an acceptable and reasonable deal for Dodgers to make, that doesnt mean I am saying it was a bad trade for Sox to make. I think its amazing Sox got rid of contracts, but by LAD accepting them I dont immediately claim they blew it. Thats all.
     
  28. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Anyone want to play another round of fun with numbers?

    Player A - 27 years old
    150 games
    629 PA
    563 AB
    109 Runs
    187 Hits
    33 HR
    111 RBI
    33 SB
    .332 BA
    .397 OBP
    .597 SLG
    .994 OPS
    166 OPS +

    Player B - 28 years old
    122 games
    537 PA
    472 AB
    88 Runs
    147 Hits
    36 HR
    92 RBI
    21 SB
    .311 BA
    .389 OBP
    .610 SLG
    .999 OPS
    162 OPS +

    The two players? Player A is Ryan Braun from last year and Player B is Ryan Braun from this year.

    I think the numbers are pretty interesting, especially if you want to factor in his positive PED test from last year. Aren't PEDs suppose to inflat the numbers? The numbers between the two years are pretty similar and Braun's numbers during his career are pretty damn consistent around the board. So does that mean Braun has always been using PEDs (and still is)? Or is it possible that the positive PED test was wrong? Or is it possible that PEDs don't have a real effect on the numbers? Or is it simply a case of "we have zero clue just how much effect they actually have on a player and each case is different"?

    Anyway just thought it was interesting to compare his numbers.
     
  29. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Actually, in this instance, for me, that possibility negates any fair discussion of his case, and all other options you listed cant really be opined on.

    Historically speaking, his performance (consistency) since coming into MLB is simply unique; but with no other positive/failed results prior to this past - and none since - its hard to argue he has been on PEDs (big brush) all this time, or even prior, etc. And since NO PEDs ever is a real possibility and simply a false positive, its still amazing to think just how consistent he has been.

    P.S. I have him in my H2H total points mixed keeper league and he is leading me to 1st week playoff bye.
     
  30. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Cot’s Baseball Contracts has compiled each team’s payroll obligations for 2013. Here's the list, starting with the largest commitments:


    • Dodgers, $193.8MM
    • Phillies, $133.1MM
    • Yankees, $119.1MM
    • Cardinals, $92.8MM
    • Angels, $92.3MM
    • Tigers, $90.2MM
    • Rangers, $84.4MM
    • White Sox, $83.3MM
    • Giants, $81.0MM
    • Reds, $74.1MM
    • Twins, $68.3MM
    • Marlins, $67.5MM
    • Blue Jays, $61.3MM
    • Nationals, $58.6MM
    • Diamondbacks, $55.0MM
    • Mets, $54.5MM
    • Orioles, $53.2MM
    • Brewers, $52.4MM
    • Rockies, $46.5MM
    • Red Sox, $45.6MM
    • Cubs, $41.8MM
    • Mariners, $40.5MM
    • Royals, $34.9MM
    • Pirates, $27.9MM
    • Padres, $26.0MM
    • Athletics, $23.0MM
    • Rays, $18.6MM
    • Braves, $15.2MM
    • Indians, $11MM
    • Astros, $5.5MM
     
  31. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    The Dodgers payroll and Astros are both amazing and yet funny.
     
  32. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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  33. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Wow...Astros don't even deserve to be a team :lol:
     
  34. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    They should have fun in the AL West next year.
     
  35. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I think it's time pitchers wear protective head gear. They already make the 1st and 3rd base coaches wear them, what are they waiting for? A pitcher to get killed or have a massive brain injury on the mound?
     
  36. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    You serious? Like what a helmet?
     
  37. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Extremely serious. If you google pitcher head gear you might be able to see some prototypes. It's basically almost like wrestling head gear where it wraps around the head so it's not a full on helmet but still it protects the head.
     
  38. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    I can see this going the way of hockey helmet visors, most pitchers wont want to wear it...
     
  39. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Are we going to put them into full body armor for the splintered bats, or ban wood bats completely?
     
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  40. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    yeah I agree with ya,.....let it be, this isn't some epidemic like football concussions...dont get me wrong it is a shame what happened the other day, but stuff like that doesnt happen much...

    sh$t just locate the ball better!!!
     

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