Do You Agree With the Trade of Vontae Davis for a 2nd?

That's not true. I don't think it's crazy for a fan to not be completely angered with this trade. Or to even be ok with it or happy about it. The fans I'm talking about are the fans that just blindly agree with every move Ireland makes. Or to suggest he is a successful NFL GM. And the constant spin. But hell, I don't even have a problem with those people who support Ireland. Blind loyalty is part of being a fan sometimes. Myself, personally I just cannot continue to accept Ireland's total body of work, which has been in large part a failure.

 

I would recommend this be followed. I have noticed the both of you cant seem to agree on anything in any forum and before it becomes personal between two good members just ignore each other.

 

No. The way I see it, We got rid of a veteran guy in our secondary. Safeties are sub par right now, and we could have used the help from CB's. It's looking like we're all in for another frustrating season.

 

Were we not in for a frustrating season before trading the Vontae? The answer is obviously no, which is why I fail to see why anyone isn't stoked that we were able to get a high 2nd round pick for Vontae.

 

Wrong. We're defending a few things called logic, reason, and objectivity which some of us try to practice at all times, but I wouldn't expect you to understand that.
You see, when you deem trades and draft picks as failures before you actually know the outcome, it's void of logic, reason, and objectivity; hence we defend that. When you purposefully use another person's mistakes & failure as a reason to fire someone else, it's void of logic, reason, and objectivity; hence we defend that as well. So, many of us aren't actually defending Ireland, himself, and we're not defending him b/c not enough of this played out yet to warrant our full support. Only when the results of his identifiable body of work (not to be confused with the murky one where Parcells had greatest authority) become apparent is when we'll decide to pass judgement on him, positive or negative.

What makes your posts foolish is you seem to think anyone who doesn't hate Ireland as much as you is a supporter & defender of Ireland, that we're apologists. We provide objective reasons for why we don't think Ireland should be fired, and none of those reasons include lauding stuff like "Ireland's the best GM in the league", "He deserves a raise". We've chosen to take the middle ground for now........... but that's a stark contrast to your posts about Ireland that all deal with stuff involving hate, "I cant wait till he's fired", and stooping low enough to throw belittling insults to objective Dolphin fans like "I'm guessing you'll all pretend you never liked him much anyways." You display zero objectivity. None. You view every move that's made by this organization as a reason to hopefully fire Ireland, so excuse us rational & objective fans for defending such nonsense.

 

Do you believe Vontaes play on the field was a problem for the dolphins? If so that's fine I see your stance but If you feel his production was fine then why trade a 24 year old and add a new hole when hes already a piece you can rebuild around.

 

Thats logic and objectivity in your opinion. He's grading Ireland on his assessment. Not everyone chooses to see things as you do or as I do or as MonstBlitz does. He doesnt like JI, thats his prerogative. He didnt insult anyone directly at all, he didnt swear or act rudely so whats the problem?

 

I expected Vonte to have his own Island and every year since drafted he is a little more disappointing. Best to get value from him before he tanks completely to a 6th round trade value.

Expected him to be our Revis, I just don't see him taking that next step and he needs more than one next step.

 

You keep speaking of these fans yet you've shown no proof. None. You just ramble on and ramble on and verbally slap everyone around who doesn't share your hatred of Ireland.

 

I would suggest the ignore list for him if you disagree with him that much.

 

Verbally slap everyone around? I've been very careful not to personally attack anyone, nor will I. I only disagree with you. I haven't said your posts are foolish, which is more than I can say for you. You seem to paint me as an irrational crazed fan full of hatred towards Ireland. It's true I don't respect him as an NFL GM. If you look in the mirror, I think you're just as passionate and emotional about defending him as I am at stating I don't think he's an effective NFL GM.

And that's OK. That's what debate is. I'm sorry if you felt attacked but I honestly am fascinated by the dynamic when fans (in general, not saying you do it) passionately defend a Miami Dolphin player or staff member, but only up to the point they are released. As soon as they are gone, they are generally remembered objectively as the ineffectual players or staff members they were. John Beck, Tony Sparano, Chad Henne. All Dolphins who were defended just as passionately as Jeff Ireland is today. Now they are the butt of jokes in numerous threads.

I would respect people more if they continued to defend said players, coaches and staff members even after they were released. But it rarely happens.

 

The problem I have with the trade is that I don't believe Marshall is an upgrade over Davis. The fact that the Colts were willing to trade a second round draft pick for Davis and possibly an additional sixth round pick, tells me that they feel that with the right coaching, he can be one of the best CB's in the NFL. Obviously they feel that the Miami coaching staff doesn't have this same ability to get the best out of Davis.

As far as Marshall is concerned. He is a journeyman CB in the NFL who is playing for his third team in the past three years. The Dolphins would be lucky to get a seventh round draft pick for him, if they put him on the trading block.

Ireland and Ross have made it very clear that they don't see this year as a rebuilding year. Yet Ireland traded the best receiver on the team and now has traded the player who was projected to be one of the best CB's coming into the league when they drafted him a few years ago. I just have to wonder why this coaching staff couldn't get the best out of Davis, yet the Colts are giving up a lot because they think Davis will be a solid CB for them.

I have no idea if Davis will ever be able to be the player the Dolphins thought he could be when the drafted him. All I do know is that by giving up on him and filling his spot in the starting lineup with a journeyman CB in, Marshall. The Dolphins have added to the long list of positions they are going to have to fill with quality players in the next few years, if they expect to be a legitimate playoff contender in the next 3-4 years.

 

His play was fine at times, and not at others. To top it off, he's apparently lazy. For a high 2nd round pick, you cut your losses imo.

 

I have no problem with the Dolphins cutting their losses, if that is what they think they did by trading Davis. I just hope they don't think Marshall is the long term answer at the CB position. They merely have opened a huge hole they are going to have to fill, along with several other huge holes on this roster.

 

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but I think you have to chalk this deal up to Philbin as much as to Ireland. And yes, I think it's a good deal. Getting an at-worst mid-range 2nd plus a conditional for a 3rd corner is good value.

 

Respectfully, no it's not. It's deemed "logical" and "objective" by the very definitions of logic and objectivity. Calling this trade a failure and bad move when it, IN FACT, could actually turn out to be an outstanding move is lacking in logic b/c the logic says we won't know how good or bad the trade is until it plays out in entirety, which could take a couple years.
In the below Monstblitz quote, you can see he's clearly speaking in absolutes, which makes it void of logic & reason, and considering his hatred of Ireland, it also makes Monstblitz subjective b/c he's choosing to ignore aspects of the trade (like it being Philbin's doing) in order to blame Ireland for it.

He can have whatever opinion of Ireland he wants. Never said he cant. But when he's using his personal "opinion" of Ireland as grounds for judging and labeling others, then yes, that type or argument is not logical. Some might deem it pompous and arrogant.

Yes, he might be grading Ireland on his own assessment just as you're entitled to grade a college prospect, and if you want to believe he's actually being objective about it, then that's your opinion; however I've seen enough of his posts to know he's looking for every excuse to have Ireland fired, which is "subjective" by definition, not objective. See the below quotes as examples of subjectivity & lacking logic & reason:

That's exactly my point. B/c some of us have yet to take a stance on Ireland (either positive OR negative) we're spoken down to by posters like MonstBlitz b/c we don't share his hatred of Ireland. We're called KoolAid drinkers, apologists, members of the Ireland fan club, and then antagonized and belittled with comments like the following:

Why the need for such antagonizing and hostile comments? What, just b/c we don't share in his hatred? In his eyes, anyone who doesn't have his mind made up on Ireland (hating him and wanting him fired) is a KoolAid drinking, apologistic member of the Ireland Fan Club. So tell me, how is that being objective, reasonable, and logical?

No, he does worse. He lumps all of us, everyone who doesn't hate Ireland, together and then antagonizes and belittles us as a whole. He's rudely and hostilely calling posters: "KoolAid drinkers" even though they're not, "Ireland apologists" when they're not, and "Ireland Fan Club members" when they're not, all b/c we don't share his contempt, so how is that not considered rude or insulting?

After all, he's yet to show exactly which posters are in open support of Ireland; he's yet to show which posters believe Ireland has been a successful GM to date; he's yet to prove the existence of this so-called Fan Club; and he arrogantly & conveniently labels those as apologists despite those posters objectively supporting arguments with logic and reason absent emotion.

Since there actually is NO Ireland Fan Club, it's an insult. Since there are no members running around screaming that Ireland is the best GM in the league, there are no KoolAid drinkers, making that comment an insult; and because every poster I've seen on here who doesn't support Ireland's immediate firing does so with logic, reason, and objectivity, it's insulting & rude for Monstblitz to label those posters as apologists. All of that is worse than directly insulting one member b/c it's rudely & intentionally insulting & antagonizing MANY members while cowardly hiding behind the ToS which has no recourse for veiledly insulting a group of people.

 

I've done that with a couple of posters who get under my skin. It is better than risking their comments driving one to the point of going off on them. You know what? I scroll past their ignored posts and I don't miss them one bit.

 

That does sound like baiting. Is baiting against the TOS?

 

That is not true.

Also, just because someone can see the logic behind the Davis trade, (I don't), it does not make them an Ireland kool-aid drinker.

 

This isnt a request. It was discussed among staff. Clearly youre sensitive to his thoughts on the topic and right now youre the only one pursuing this. I think youre a good member and a smart poster. Please do not push this further.

 

Baiting can be construed many ways. I can construe his comments as baiting if i wanted to. I try not pursue petty stuff and when i do i apologize if im wrong. The staff has a criteria for baiting though.

 

Trade sucks, and looks like we're already prepared to tank the season.

 

absolfrigginlutely. Vontae Davis for a second round pick ? Yeah, the Colts were hard up because no way in hell is Vontae worth a second round pick in a regular market. This team will be no better or worse without Vontae.

 

I had a sincere apology typed up for anyone who has taken anything I've said about Ireland personally. But I didn't want it to be construed as responding to yet another baiting post which was submitted while I was typing. I'll just leave it alone and let the mods handle it.

 

You're just being a Kool-Aid drinking, Monstblitz apologist, president of his fan club.

 

Bro, just put MonstBlitz on ignore and save yourself a lot of stress. That's what I've done with a couple of other posters and they can babble on all they want now and it has no effect on my life on the board.

 

Can they still respond to your posts when they're on ignore?

 

Yes, they can see yours, but you can't see theirs, unless someone else not on ignore replies and quotes their post. Still, after they notice they no longer get replies from you, they'll give up.

 

It is the ****.

 

Hmph, I'm not sure I like the idea of not being able to see someone's response to my post when I don't trust their responses will always be genuine in nature.
I'll just stick to the report button I guess.

 

Ignore status isn't permanent. If you did try it, you can always change back to the usual way at any time.

 

Most of the people who claim to put people on ignore don't actually ever do it anyway. Listen, I know you don't agree with my posts and I know I offended you even though it wasn't my intent. I have no problems if you put me on ignore. But if you put everyone you don't agree with on ignore what fun is that? Unless you enjoy everyone agreeing with exactly what you think about the Miami Dolphins. I find it entertaining to discuss Dolphin football with those who don't agree with me. But like I said it's up to you. You can keep on being offended or accept my apology and move on. It's just the internet, no sense in letting anything I say or anybody else on here ruin your day.

That being said, I know there are at least one or 2 on this board who seem to really get inflamed even at harmless posts I type. Those people should absolutely put me on ignore.

 

This is true. I do see the logic in the trade and I think we can all agree that I am not an Ireland kool-aid drinker.

 

You're right, Sparano wasn't as hotly debated as Ireland. At least not in the final year. Henne was debated more fiercely than Ireland. John Beck is hard to remember but I'd say that was about the same as Henne.

[quote="MrClean]Also, just because someone can see the logic behind the Davis trade, (I don't), it does not make them an Ireland kool-aid drinker.[/QUOTE]

This is true. As I've said I don't think it's crazy for people to look at this trade alone as a positive.

 

I agree with this.
The ignore button is no fun.
For example, I couldn't imagine having Fin-D on ignore.....where's the fun in that?

 

You just admitted to the entire board that you can't quit me.