Kyle Orton, Kevin Kolb & Matt Flynn

link?

 

For the record this Pre-Seson... I know it don't mean didly squat...

Orton: 14 comp, 22 att (63% comp), 170 yds (7.7 YPA), 2 INTs, 49 QBR...
Flynn: 17 comp, 26 att (65% comp), 102 yds (3.9 YPA), 1 INT, 57 QBR...
Kolb: 5 comp, 15 att (33% comp), 47 yds (3.1 YPA), 15 QBR...
Tanne: 25 comp, 44 att (57% comp), 267 yds (6.1 YPA), 1 TD, 82 QBR...

 

You should know by now that Ireland doesn't believe in risk vs. reward, because that involves taking a risk.

 

same difference. That actually proves my point even more and disproves yours even further.

Garrard might as well be reflexive for Flynn. Stop gap. Only difference is Flynn would've been our permanent backup rather than a 1 year contract Garrard. Moore is a FA after this year, and Flynn was likely deemed as a better fit.

So for ONE year we would've carried all 3 QBs (at a lower cost than what some teams pay their franchise QB) with the option of trading or cutting Moore depending on Tannehill's readiness. Then in 2013 it would've been Tannehill & Flynn. Signing Flynn would've solved our backup QB situation for a while, but now we'll instead have to figure out what to do for 2013. It seems like you're looking at this from a 1 year perspective when the organization is looking at it from the long term.

 

being what you perceive as cautious doesn't disqualify risk. There is always risk. Caution would mean hedging your bets more.

 

First of all, I don't remember the Dolphins even having an interest in signing Kolb. The thought at the time was that Henne would be the answer in 2011 and therefore the Dolphins had no interest in Kolb, as far as I know. Of course Ireland was 100% wrong about Henne being the answer at the QB position.

According to reports, it was Ross who vetoed the Dolphins going after Orton because of the money Orton was demanding on a long term contract. So I am not sure how Ireland now gets the credit for not going after Orton. All Ireland did was not try and trade for Orton, because that was what his BOSS told him to do.

Prior to Flynn becoming a free agent. Everyone on here was stating that it would be up to Philbin as to whether or not the Dolphins would go after Flynn in free agency. If Philbin was high on Flynn and thought he would be the long term answer at the QB position, most people thought the Dolphins would sign him. Obviously Philbin was not that high on Flynn and therefore the Dolphins didn't feel he was worth the money he was asking for in free agency. I have to think that Philbin had a lot more to do with the Dolphins not signing Flynn than Ireland did.

 

Search for..."Armando+Salguero+Carson+Palmer+Orton"...and that should turn up a news article written by Armando Salguero in which he details that Jeff Ireland's primary target at quarterback a year ago was Carson Palmer, and in that article I believe he states unequivocally that Steve Ross stepped in and halted the Kyle Orton trade. I believe those nuggets came in the same article. I could be wrong, they could be in different articles. I don't feel like searching for it.

 

You bring in Flynn b/c Moore is a FA after this season, and b/c it's highly plausible that Philbin, having worked with Flynn, believed Flynn would've been the better backup option for his offense moving forward (as well as perhaps the best 2012 option should Tannehill either not be ready or not be on the board at our #8 pick).

Tannehill is irrelevant to it all.

 

The whole thing about Matt Flynn is interesting because personally I considered there to be three valid QB options.

1. Sign Matt Flynn and then draft someone, preferably Russell Wilson
2. Draft Ryan Tannehill and sign someone, David Garrard a good example, possibly even Peyton Manning
3. Draft Brandon Weeden, and then do either of the above, whichever one makes the most sense to you

That's what became so interesting about Miami and Seattle because Miami did something I totally approved of, Cleveland did the same, and Seattle actually did EXACTLY what I would have most preferred, if we'd signed Matt Flynn.

I really admire how Seattle tackled that position. But I also like how Miami tackled it, and obviously I like how Cleveland tackled theirs.

We'll just have to see, long term, which one comes out best.

 

That article is offline, but is quoted and referenced here.

 

Wilson is good, Flynn hasnt failed, wilson is earning it. I wanted wilson badly if we diidnt fraft Tannehill

 

.... which is why we traded back in the first round to gather an extra pick rather than drafting the less experienced Tannehill at 8. Never mind, that didn't happen.

Another example is how we decided NOT to bring in Reggie Bush at $5.0M a season after losing both our starting running backs. Never mind, that didn't happen either.

The past 2 years under Ireland have enough risk-reward examples to disprove your statement. Ireland's maintained a nice balance of risk vs reward since he took over.

 

I'm happy exactly where we are at. Ill take the lumps with a big *** grin because im fairly confident that Tannehill will eventually be a starting caliber QB. I hope we end up dumping Garrard for Devlin as well.

I don't believe that Garrard was a lock to beat out Tannehill. I honestly think Tannehill has been better than expected this far.

 

I'm plenty calm. You did insult me personally, when I had been nothing but respectful to you.

Funny, I thought we were on a message board. Secondly, the phone call conversation was never refuted. Lastly, you said it was faulty without an ounce of proof or evidence circumstantial or otherwise.

 

lol why would we give Ireland credit for passing on Orton? if it wasn't for Ross stepping in and killing the talks, Ireland probably would have traded for Orton.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolp...phins-not-a-total-mess-on-some-decisions.html

 

Im thinking on these lines, There was more than just Tannehill that Flynn had to go up against in the draft, it was Weeden and Wilson as well, we had probable scenarios where we could of had any of those three, for me,I put Flynn's reps up against those rookies and I didnt think Flynn passed that test, but he knew our offense, he could help the new rookie, and we needed to have some more competition for Moore, put a bit more money into the position, so we offered him a contract to compete for the backup, and the contract seemed to reflect that no?

 

Exactly, and that has been the key point.

 

I agree with you that it's probably a good thing we didn't sign Peyton Manning, but this once again goes back to Hardcore's original point that the Dolphins pursued him and if it is indeed a GOOD thing that we didn't sign him (up for debate) then it's a matter of luck that we dodged that bullet, not skill.

 

But can we define this pursuit? There are varying degrees here, from "we want you to be a part of the team" to "we will do whatever you want".

 

Not just Wilson and Weeden, everyone...whether I liked them or not is irrelevant. I didn't like Osweiler but Tannehill is up against him too. I didn't like Foles too much but Tannehill is up against him. B.J. Coleman, Chandler Harnish...everyone. It's the way this business works.

 

Yes, we can define it. Their pursuit was classified in the "Jeff Ireland will smear green jello over Steve Ross' naked body and eat it off him if you promise to sign here" category.

To pretend that they didn't pursue Peyton Manning to the maximum of their abilities would be, IMO, revisionist history.

 

I don't believe Ross was making that call?, he knows his place.. I don't buy it.

 

I believe Steve Ross very well may have called off the dogs on that hunt, yes.

 

thanks. here it is.

But that statement doesn't mean a thing b/c it doesn't say who's idea it was to pursue Orton in the first place.

I was under the impression Ross was involved with pushing for Orton to begin with, which makes more sense when it comes to getting involved with shutting the pursuit down.

 

IDK to me it was common sense that Kolb and Fylnn weren't the answer to the position....Ortin I would have done for a late round pick and used him as competition....and they wouldn't have needed to sign DG...

but Kolb and Flynn no way, I wouldn't have touch them whatsoever...

 

I've been saying since seeing him in the first pre-seson game that Peyton is, sadly, done as far as I can see.

Denver will need a QB by midseason, or flush the season down the toilet.

 

So he called the dogs off his own hunt. Big deal. That doesn't incriminate Ireland.

 

Why Kyle Orton? Why step in at that time? Where did he get the idea not to go for Orton from an evaluation perspective..Are you thinking Carl Peterson made that call.?

 

Lol..piss off.

 

Careful, you'll have your mouth washed out with soap.

 

his place? lol dude he's the owner. there is no higher authority.

 

I don't think Carl Peterson hardly ever weighs in, if at all. I think Peterson counseled Ross a little bit on the Head Coach search but that's probably it.

 

When Ireland passed on/lost out on the other QB's in FA, his hand was forced. He HAD to draft to Tannehill. Personally, I thought it was the right move, but it was a no-brainer for him. There was no possible way he couldn't take him there.

And how was Reggie Bush a risk? He signed a two-year contract, not to mention Ireland also drafted Daniel Thomas, presumably to be the RB of the future.

 

I've deleted ~25 posts in this thread. If you guys want to act like children, do not do it here. I will cut you like Philbin cut Johnson. There aren't any leadership councils to bail you out either.

 

What I heard back during the Orton discussion was that Ross asked Ireland to find out how much it would take to sign Orton. Ireland did and provided that info to Ross. Then Ross asked Ireland if he thought Orton was worth that to which Ireland said "no". Ireland advised that it was a great QB draft and that they should pass on Orton. The rumors were that Ireland was really high on Luck, Barkley and RT. I believe this was the course of events and that it was not a Ross veto. It doesn't make sense for Ross to think that Ireland was so wrong about Orton that he needed to over-rule him and then be so confident in Ireland that he basically hands the team over to him.

With the pursuit of Flynn, my guess was that Philbin was actually higher on Flynn than Sherman or Ireland. Philbin was not, however, high enough on Flynn that he was willing to demand they sign Flynn. The low contract they offered was a reflection of what Ireland felt Flynn was worth. Personally I thought Ireland under-valued Flynn. I believe he did that b/c he was extremely high on RT. (There have been reports on Ireland liking RT going back two seasons). I believe that Ireland wanted RT above all and that he would have drafted RT regardless of whether Flynn accepted the offer.

I do not recall the Dolphins ever showing any interest in Kolb.

 

I'm not getting into taking sides, but I will say this. When I read the above sentence, I read it literally too. i.e. Miami would of still taken Tannehill had they signed Matt Flynn. "The only difference" being the meaningful part that implied Miami was taking Tannehill irrespective.

To balance that up, I thought CK potentially changed the tone of the thread by introducing some subtle sarcasm which I thought may have been a bit near the mark, if it wasn't taken lightly.

After that everything meaningful on the subject was lost with all the noise!

 

You are no fun mod.....

 

From an objective, logical standpoint this makes the most sense.