Something that correlates with regular season wins. Preseason performance does not correlate. Betting markets have predicted 7.5 wins. That is pretty accurate IMO.
Yes, and Tannebaum sucks too. It's why the Jets will be <= .500 this year and next year too. We knew this was going to happen when they tried so hard to win in 09 and 10 with all those expensive Free Agent signings.
I wasn't arguing with him ftr, I was asking a question. i didn't think the first two rounds were horrible. But most of those are Parcells influenced drafts, and I was one of a tiny, tiny handful that did not want Parcells here. I have been saying I'll judge Ireland on last year's draft and this year's draft. He had no Parcells blueprint to follow. Now, so far last year's draft is looking iffy. Its obviously too early to judge it realistically, but I admit those guys need to show something, specifically DT and Gates. I loved this year's draft on paper. We'll see if it is a good as I hope it is. If Tanny is the real deal, Ireland gets one more year in my book. If not...next.
And here is my honest opinion of how I grade them: 1st Round - TE Dustin Keller - Impact Starter 1st Round - DT Muhammad Wilkerson - Starter 1st Round - CB Kyle Wilson - Half-Starter 1st Round - QB Mark Sanchez - Backup. Bust 1st Round - DE Vernon Gholston - Washout. Bust 2nd Round - OG Vladimir Ducasse - Backup. Bust 3rd Round - RB Shonn Greene - Starter 3rd Round - DT Kenrick Ellis - Starter 4th Round - S/CB Dwight Lowery - Starter 4th Round - RB Joe McKnight - Backup 4th Round - RB Bilal Powell - Backup 5th Round - FB John Conner - Half-Starter 5th Round - WR Jeremy Kerley - Backup 5th Round - QB Erik Ainge - Washout 6th Round - OG Matt Slauson - Starter 6th Round - WR Marcus Henry - Washout 7th Round - QB Greg McElroy - Backup 7th Round - OT Nate Garner - Washout 7th Round - WR Scotty McKnight - Washout
True. But its just as likely that Vontae gets to the pro bowl as he is to be cut. He's an enigma at this point. DT you're right about. I know we differ on Parcells influence, but, if Tanny is the real deal....would you give Ireland another year if you were owner?
Exactly. So when Miami finishes with 7 wins this year on a seemingly easy schedule, can we hold Jeff Ireland accountable. Will it be ok then?
I know this was for CK , not trying to intrude. What Tanneyhill does doesn't influence me , what the other players do , does. No real sense of hope , not the type of hope we have right now for the wr corps as an example , but hope like we have for 17 , if that isn't there at the end of the season , how can anyone think keeping Ireland is the right move? It is like when a lot of us knew Sparano was dead coach walking and we decided to keep him ..... delaying the inevitable and putting us another year behind ,imo.
You certainly are free to hold him accountable on your own criteria. I'm not going to do it based off win/loss alone. There is a lot more to it IMO.
I guess what I'm implying on my 'scale' would be the following: 1. All Pro - E.g. Jake Long 2. Impact Starter - E.g. Dustin Keller 3. Starter - E.g. Brian Hartline 4. Liability Starter/Half-Starter - E.g. Chris Clemons, Vontae Davis 6. Backup - E.g. Nolan Carroll 7. Washout - E.g. Vernon Gholston The 'bust' that I added in there is a separate tag and just denotes guys that I felt underplayed their expectations relative to where they were drafted. I have in Miami a 1, six 3's, four 4's, six 6's and fifteen 7's. In New York I have no 1's, a 2, five 3's, two 4's, six 6's and five 7's.
Finding a franchise QB is the hardest thing a GM can do. Especially when he isn't the #1 overall pick. If Tanny turns out to be the man, don't forget MANY people thought he was a reach at 8. Considering Ireland targeted him before the last draft, that would bode well for Ireland. Again, I don't count years Parcells was here against Ireland, because we all know Ireland had to draft players that Parcells mold and Parcells mold is outdated.
I'm not sure that using starters are a measurement is going to be very representative, because there are inherently 22 starters on a team. But when I compare the Dolphins to the Jets, I see a lot more guys on Miami with upside. A guy like Vontae Davis played at a pro bowl level for the second half of 2011, and it isn't very far-fetched to believe he'll become more consistent, which is all he needs to go to the next level. I certainly think guys like Hartline and Charles Clay haven't really been maxed out in terms of what they can produce. Will these guys play better than they have in the past? I'm not sure, but I have more hope in them than I do in guys like Shonn Greene or Kyle Wilson. Not to mention that the Jets cap situation is F'd, while Miami seemingly can build the team as they see fit this coming offseason. They aren't weighed down by any contracts, which is a huge plus IMO.
What is the standard? How many starters do you get, of what quality in an average draft? Or four drafts? I don't think that's an appropriate context. He's not a run-down sub, and he's been disproportionately productive for a player of his build and responsibility type. That really doesn't change if they are successes or not. Sean Smith swinging from very good starter to terrible starter from year to year still puts him significantly ahead of his "peers". Likewise, Hartline has been very productive for the round he was drafted in. Same with Jones, Clemons.
Says who? I don't know if I agree about that. For now I think he is what he is which is a half-starter. No I really would not. And I mean that truly and honestly. I think that Ryan Tannehill was a pretty easy decision to make, and that's the problem I have with Jeff Ireland. Choosing Jake Long at #1 overall isn't hard. It's not risky. It's easy. It's easy to know that won't be a bust. Choosing Mike Pouncey at #15 overall wasn't risky, no chance-taking involved in that, it was easy to know that when a center grades this high the bust factor is almost zero. Now you fast forward to Ryan Tannehill and I don't think people have an appreciation for how much of a no-brainer this really was. His college coach is our offensive coordinator, he compares in style (the way he throws on the move, etc) to Aaron Rodgers who was just coached by our new Head Coach, and he was absolutely the CONSENSUS (and I do mean quite literally 18 of 19 general managers/head coaches agreed, on a pre-Draft survey) third best quarterback in the Draft behind only Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin whom those same general managers considered to be rare quarterbacks. And even aside from that, as a quarterback prospect I felt like Tannehill was very safe. As I said many times before the Draft, I don't necessarily have a clear vision for him becoming an elite QB a la Rodgers/Brady/Mannning/Roethlisberger/Brees...but I literally don't have any vision for how his skill set and experience becomes a total bust, in particular because of the way he handles pressure and can throw on the move. When he's faced with those types of situations, Jeff Ireland goes conservative, and I think he gets the conservative result. I don't think that's the way you win in this league unless you show a particular gift for picking out star players at the bottom of the Draft...and so far, he hasn't.
No, it really isn't, and that's what has been so maddening about the last five years. Finding an ELITE quarterback (Rodgers/Brady/Manning/Roethlisberger/Brees) is the hardest thing a GM can do. Finding a franchise guy at that spot, a guy who can win, is just a matter of putting yourself out there and taking some chances.
Why? They decided to not sign him with the input of Philbin , kudos for not ( so far ) safe is not signing him when your head coach doesn't fully endorse it.
Whether you feel Kyle Wilson or Vontae Davis has more potential is in my opinion a matter of whether you find yourself wearing a Marino or Chrebet jersey on game day.
A minority of players still being on the roster after virtually all of the rookie contracts have expired isn't all that noteworthy. Kendall Langford being allowed to walk in free agency for example does not change what kind of player he is. Saying he can't be all that good if he was allowed to walk is pretty simplistic take on it when you can absolutely evaluate his merits as a player. The fact that the defense changed and the team was in a position to choose between him and another success is not really relevant to his talent. John Jerry is pretty much undeniably a disappointment and Jimmy Graham was a huge opportunity cost, and Ireland should be blamed for it. He should however be accurately and fairly blamed for it. Acting as if Jimmy Graham was an obvious choice and that the decision to draft Jerry was clearly wrong based on anything other than retrospect is ridiculous and silly. Well, ignoring the fact that you've come nowhere close to being able to suggest that I'm improperly defending Ireland, yes, I've actually questioned whether Ireland should continue to have a job. If he does worse, he should be fired. If you are reasonably able to determine that perception of him damages the Dolphins ability to acquire talent, he should be fired- Regardless of his prior success rate.
Because he didn't cost a top-10 pick, and would have prevented all the ridiculous media criticism the team received from "missing out" on Flynn.
I like Lowery as a player and all, but in his time with the Jets he'd qualify more as a half starter. 43 games played there and 18 starts.
Didn't cost a top ten pick but would have cost big dollars , and in my estimation it was because Philbin decided he wasn't worth the cost , media criticism shouldn't enter into it , win , make the playoffs , actually be a contender and the fans will be the barometer not the media.
But at that point it will have been 2 different coaching staffs that have produced sub .500 seasons under 2 different owners. Wouldn't we then have to look at the common denominator?
No, because there are so many moving parts. The team can still be good and finish sub .500. What if Tannehill looks great through 8 games, then gets injured? What if Cam Wake gets hurt? The team's future salary cap is just as important to me right now than their w/l record. There are a lot of things I want to see aside from w/l record at this point. It would be real easy for Jeff Ireland to make sure we win 10 games this year. The same way it was real easy for Mike Tannenbaum to ensure the Jets made the playoffs so they could sell PSLs.
Also as a note, while I don't think you can accurately evaluate a GM by his team's record, I think if the Dolphins fail to "improve" this season he should likely be fired.
Sign Vincent Jackson. Sign Mario Williams. Sign any one of the overpaid free-agents we see teams mortgage their future on every off-season. Ireland isn't locking the team into bad contracts. Even when he signed guys like Jake Grove, the lasting impact on those contracts isn't very bad. The only real big contract he has given out has been to Dansby, and in hindsight it was a solid move. It really isn't hard for a GM to go wild with money to produce instant results though.
I agree that it's not all W/L record. For me, I want to see: -Improved OL play in both pass and run game -Safeties to be less of a liability in coverage -Consistent progress from WRs -Pass rush from players other than Wake and fairly consistently. These are things that have plagued us for the past 3-5 years and have rarely, if ever, improved. I put that on coaching first and foremost. But now that we have new coaches, if they continue to be problem areas, I'm putting it on Ireland first, coaches second.
I thought the list was meant to be reflective of how they did for the teams that drafted them. You have Nate Garner as a washout, but he is a backup in Miami for example. No biggie either way. It's your list and you can grade them as you see fit.
He cant do those moves. You said it would be real easy for Ireland to make sure we win 10 games this year. How is Dansby a better decision than those 2 players? Did he help win 10 games?
Did TB and Buffalo cut Jackson and Williams? How can he sign them if they are under contract? You said it WOULD be real easy for him to ensure this team wins 10 games , how can he do that now? Or has he already done that and we will win 10 games this year?
I'm not confident in this offensive line we have at all, or our front office's ability to fix it long term.
